109. Uplevel Your Brand Messaging & Positioning: Copywriting for Interior Designers with Deb Mitchell
Do you want to attract bigger and better clients to your interior design business? Are you ready to up-level your brand presence but aren’t sure where to start?
In this episode, I sit down with brand strategist and copywriter for interior designers, Deb Mitchell, to discuss how powerful messaging can transform your interior design business from the inside out. From the importance of authentic brand positioning to crafting a compelling voice that builds trust with your ideal clients, Deb shares her expert insights on the power of investing in strategic messaging for your business.
Listen in this week to learn Deb’s tips for making empowered decisions about your brand messaging and positioning, and the internal growth that’s required when you want to up-level. She offers the three pillars that will help you show up as your most authentic and elevated self, and breaks down how effective messaging and positioning can help you sell more easily, increase profits, and save precious time and energy in your business.
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What You’ll Discover from this Episode:
The difference between brand positioning and brand messaging (and why you need both).
When it might be time to invest in your brand positioning and messaging.
How having a clear business vision positively impacts your messaging.
Deb’s tips for infusing your authentic personality into your website copy while still sounding professional.
Why investing in strategic messaging helps you sell more easily and increase profits.
How to navigate the internal growth required when you decide to up-level your brand presence.
The power of owning your unique voice and showing up confidently as your true self.
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Full Episode Transcript:
Hey designer, you’re listening to episode 109. In today’s episode we’re going to be talking to Deb Mitchell, a copywriter for interior designers. Deb and I cover so much great ground, including everything from using your brand positioning and messaging to land those bigger and better clients, growing your interior design business in alignment with your future goals, how to be authentic in how you show up online and differentiate yourself among other designers in your space, and then of course we’re going to dive into the internal work this elevation in your brand presence can stir up and how to work through it. I can’t wait to dive in, let’s get started.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place. I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Desi: Hello designer, welcome back to the podcast. Today we have a very special guest, my friend and brilliant copywriter, Deb Mitchell. Welcome, Deb, I’m so glad to have you here.
Deb: Hi Desi, I’m so happy to be here. I’m honored to be called your friend, first of all. I call you my friend. So I’m very happy to be here. Always happy to talk to you and thrilled to be talking to your listeners too.
Desi: Yeah, this is going to be a great conversation, I already know it from the prep work we’ve done. I can’t even remember how we first connected, do you remember?
Deb: No, I can’t. I think we knew a few different mutuals and I can’t remember who reached out to who first and I can’t even remember when because I think it was in Covid times when, you know, time was all a construct.
Desi: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. But what I was remembering was just it felt like we were so like-minded, it felt like there was an instant connection, and I’m just really excited to share you with everyone and talk about some of the things we’re going to cover today, which is going to be all about copywriting on your website. But copywriting on your website for your interior design business sounds really boring.
Deb: Yeah, don’t stop listening now, people.
Desi: Don’t tune away.
Deb: I know, I was going to say no. Trust us, it’s not bad.
Desi: Yes, we’ll go into why that is so incredible because it’s going to help you get everything you want in your business. But before we dive into that, Deb, if you could just take a minute for those of the listeners who aren’t familiar with you, if you could just introduce yourself and tell the designers that are listening who you are, what you do, and how you do it.
Deb: Well, my least favorite part, because I do hate sort of talking about myself, which I mean it’s what I am telling all of you to do, is to show up and to talk about yourself and it’s the hardest thing for me to do, right?
But so I am Deb Mitchell, and I own and run Deb Mitchell Writing, which started in about 20 – I was trying to think back because it started sort of in fits and starts, but it officially really launched in 2016. I started in the industry, the design industry working in-house for a designer here in the Charlotte area where I live, and taking all of their client calls and doing all of their sort of client communications, as well as marketing, writing, and all of that kind of thing.
I am not a designer. I once upon a time thought maybe that would be a thing that I wanted to do, like when I was a kid, and then went the route of writing. So this brought those worlds together. So I get to work with designers and in that world, but without all of the, I guess, risk that you guys take of actually being responsible for people’s homes.
So I feel like more in my zone of genius of taking on the responsibility of your businesses and how you show up. And that’s where I feel the most confident. So all this to say, I do brand messaging strategy, and we’re going to talk about what brand messaging really means and copywriting implementation exclusively for interior designers.
So I love to say that because I think it’s so important. I think it’s important that designers hire, particularly when it comes to your branding and marketing and messaging, people who understand the industry. The marketing piece is really nuanced for you and I think it’s very critical that you hire people who understand those nuances and understand not only you, but understand your clients.
Desi: Absolutely. I think the design industry is unique.
Deb: She says with a laugh.
Desi: No, it's amazing and wonderful and there’s so many joys and opportunities that we get to impact the lives of clients that are incredible. And there’s some really unique challenges to the industry too. And I think very unique buyer behavior and the intersection of how you as a service provider interact with the consumer.
And so I think that is really where your expertise can shine when it comes to up-leveling your messaging and your positioning, which is really an essential component of bringing in bigger, better, more profitable clients and better projects that you really want to be working on to your design firm. And I think it takes that nuanced understanding of the industry and the nuanced understanding of what a design consumer would want to be looking at and how they’re interacting with your brand as the designer to really help create those matches on the internet.
I’m just like, all of a sudden I’m thinking about internet dating.
Deb: A thousand percent, yeah, I think about that too.
Desi: Yeah, and I also think one of the other reasons I wanted to have this conversation is the work around branding and messaging becomes so interesting to me as a coach because of the internal growth that is required when you hit that moment where you want to up-level. And that’s what I always say, is when you want your business to grow, you’ve got to grow alongside it. Meaning you have to become that next level version of yourself alongside the business evolving.
And of course, that’s so much of the work that I do with my one-on-one clients. And we’ll definitely be talking about the mindset and the strategy around all of this when it’s really time for that next phase of growth.
Deb: Yes. Say it louder for the people in the back, Desi, because that’s another way that I’m different than just any writer, any good writer, is that we bump up against larger issues than just the words when I work with my clients. And I mean, I often joke that it’s pretty much like a KPI in my business of like, okay, how many times did that client cry?
And it’s like just about everyone cries and usually happy tears, but also the like, oh my gosh, aha tears of like making a connection, making a deeper connection and understanding themselves better through the process that I work with them. And that’s because they hit that mindset stuff because we’re trying to up-level to that next level client and project. And it does require realizations and growth and mindset in them. So anyway.
Desi: Yeah.
And I think those tears often come because I think that’s very true of the relationship that I have with my clients. And we’ve talked a little bit about this, but it’s, you know, obviously I don’t sit around making people cry or anything like that.
Deb: Right.
Desi: I think that it’s so rare these days that we have someone who can hold space for us and allow us to express what we truly want and believe in what we want when we sometimes don’t believe it ourselves, and allow the client to feel seen in the way that designers allow their clients the opportunity to be seen in their expression of their home.
It’s not a common practice, I don’t think even just in our general day-to-day relationships that we have of giving people that space to truly express themselves. And so I think that’s often why tears come too. It’s a bit of a relief of like, oh, I’m safe and this can come out now. And I think that’s a true gift that both of us are able to provide.
Before we dive into kind of the nitty gritty around all of this, I want to make sure that we’re on the same page with the words that we’re using. I think sometimes the words around branding and copywriting and my positioning and all of that can be kind of intimidating. And I’d love for you to just take a moment and define how you talk about brand positioning and messaging.
How do you define both of those for yourself in the work that you do? And also, if you could maybe give us a little sense of how you separate them in terms of what’s the difference.
Deb: Happy to. Brand positioning, well, first of all, let me say this because a little bit of the elephant in the room around all of this talk about words and interior designers is that they often want their images to speak for themselves. They work with a visual medium, they’re visual people, and many times they feel like, why can’t I just put my images out there and attract the right clients? Why can’t they see in the images?
And what I really say to that is, okay, your images can say a lot about you and the work that you do with your clients, but they can’t say everything. So your messaging has to do the rest. The words have to do the rest. It is a very important job.
And I will also say there’s a difference between a PR website and a marketing website. Most of the designers in the industry are in the marketing website bucket. It’s a different topic, but let me just make this distinction. A PR website is usually going to have fewer words because you’re trying to market to, you know, marketing yourself as a celebrity. And it’s your name that you’re putting into licensing kinds of things.
If you are marketing to get interior design clients, paying homeowners who otherwise don’t know you, or even commercial clients who otherwise don’t know you, you need words on your site that help them understand.
Desi: Yeah, it’s kind of like filling in the gap for them.
Deb: It’s filling in the gap. So that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about marketing websites and marketing messaging and positioning.
So back to that question, your original question. Brand positioning is really about where you fit into the marketplace. So part of that is your service area. Let’s say you’re in the Houston area of Texas. Okay, but how far out do you go from the Houston area? Or are you Houston and a certain part of Florida? Because you also have a clientele that has homes there or whatever it is. Defining that local service area.
Part of positioning is also what kind of aesthetic. You know, only from here to here is your aesthetic and you sort of have a signature aesthetic. Or are you from here to here, and you work up to this amount of traditional and up to this amount of modern, depending on your client’s style range? Positioning is all about that cross section of what the clients that you’re marketing to, what they’re looking for and where you fit and where you fill that need.
Messaging is more overarching. Positioning is a piece of messaging, okay? It’s one piece of messaging. And I do, in my services for my clients, I include a positioning statement in their brand messaging that I create for them. So messaging is broader.
Messaging includes positioning. It includes brand voice. It includes who your clients are and what they really value and how you’re speaking to them. It includes your unique point of view on design and serving your clients and how you work. It includes even how you describe your services, how you describe your process.
So does that make sense? Does that kind of distinguish positioning versus messaging?
Desi: Yeah. The important piece, too, here is like for anyone listening, you don’t have to totally get it.
Deb: Was that confusing?
Desi: Well, I work with a lot of designers who they’re used to being type A perfectionists, right? And so I just want to encourage anyone who’s listening and thinking about, oh, what’s my positioning versus my messaging to not get too tangled up in making sure that you get it right in terms of like, oh, this is this exact thing. And this is this exact thing.
Just take what Deb is saying kind of as an umbrella of how you start to think about how you talk about your business or how you present it in different ways and run with that.
Deb: Yes.
Desi: I hope you’re okay with that advice.
Deb: I’m glad you said that because actually to fully nail your positioning and your messaging, you would have to be a trained and practiced marketer.
Desi: Yes, exactly. And so often we expect ourselves to have these various roles or positions that we sort of give ourselves in our business that we really have no business giving ourselves. So I just wanted to throw in that little side note.
Deb: I’m glad you said that. And that is fair and I completely agree. Often clients come to me and they’re beating themselves up. I don’t know why I can’t do this. I don’t know why I can’t nail my messaging. I feel like, why do I need you? I don’t know why, but I feel like I do. And I’m like, because it’s not your job.
Desi: Yeah. And I mean, really it’s similar to the designer/client relationship where the client is like, thank goodness you’re here to solve my problems. We don’t judge the client for not being able to figure it out on their own. We’re glad they can’t figure it out on their own, it gives us the opportunity to do it for them, right? And if they’re believing that they can do it too much on their own, then we actually get annoyed. So just cut yourself some slack.
Deb: Yes. But I would also say, with all respect to designers, it’s because you’re so smart and because you know your clients so well, you think you need to be able to do this. But that’s just not true.
Desi: Yes. It’s totally true. Totally true. Yeah.
Okay, so now that we’ve got a little bit of clarity around brand positioning versus messaging and how the two intersect, what are some of the ways that messaging and positioning are going to show up in your business and how a designer would be using it exactly?
Deb: So, I mean, the main way is your website copy. That being the main hub for your messaging. Also, because, not only because that’s the main place that people tend to go to check you out. Even if you get most of your clients via referral, they’re tending to go to your website to check you out, right? But also because your website is kind of the most complete place for that complete picture of who you are, what you do, how you work, what your aesthetic is, all of those different kinds of things.
You have the most opportunity on your website to paint that picture with your messaging of, you know, what this whole experience is going to be like. It’s the place to give those prospects a taste of what you’re really all about in all the different ways, process down to personality.
So that, to me, is, okay, that’s a starting point. Let’s complete that picture there. And then everything else that you put out into the world, be it social media or client facing documents like welcome packets and proposals and all those kinds of things should include your messaging, but they’re going to give pieces and parts of your messaging, as opposed to that full cohesive package.
So when I work with a client, we create the brand messaging as a whole, then we’ll do the website copy. And then we want to work on, if there are other pieces that need to be worked on then we want to carry out the messaging to make the whole experience cohesive across the board.
So we don’t start with the little pieces and parts and build into the website.
Desi: I think that’s a great way to be thinking about it. And I think one of the key pieces that we were talking about here is just, you’re essentially creating the signals that you’re sending out into the world. Whether that’s through the full, like the most comprehensive piece of your messaging, which is the website, or if you’re using pieces of it to send out in different ways, it’s all sending signals to the people who you want to reach, and really helping them opt in to what you’re doing or possibly self-select out and say, nope, this is not for me.
And as we were talking about this, I’m thinking about how essentially your website and of course your other materials that you’re using really almost become like this team member that is helping you filter out clients who do not belong in your business. And also helping to then call in. It becomes a piece of your team where you have almost like your marketing manager or somebody who’s doing the work for you.
Deb: Yes, it does. I mean, you can think of it in so many different ways. You can think of it like a filter. You can think of it like a bouncer or a doorman. But I kind of like to think of it like going back to that PR website versus a marketing website, whereas a PR website is kind of like a spotlight on you, a marketing website is making you like a lighthouse. And a lighthouse sends the signal to the ship, right? So sending the signal that says to the ship, you’re in the right place or, no, keep going.
I think that’s such a nice way to think of it for so many of my clients because so many of my clients also feel like I don’t want a spotlight on me. I don’t like that icky marketing. That feels gross to me. So to think of themselves as a lighthouse and presenting themselves in that way, yeah, it’s still shining a light, but it’s to send a signal to call in the right people and to send the wrong people on. So I think that analogy just makes a lot of sense.
Desi: Yeah, I love that. And as we’re talking about these various components, it’s clear that this is an important piece of an interior designer’s business, is to have this positioning and messaging ironed out and put in a really cohesive place and format for a client to find the signal or to notice the signal.
And I think designers, as they’re listening to this, might be thinking, okay, I know this is important and there’s lots of things that I want to invest in, I want to do in my business. How do I know when it’s a good time to revisit my brand messaging and positioning? Could you speak to that?
Deb: Yeah. And I know it’s so hard because all these different investments feel urgent and important all at the same time, always, right? So I know it’s hard to prioritize that kind of thing, but I do think, first of all, experientially from when people are coming to me, it’s not only when, okay, I’m going to get a whole new website. It’s time to get the new copy. I mean, yes, that is a time to do that.
But also, and I think more importantly, when you see I’m having a problem here, the people that are coming to me are not the right people, or I’m not getting people coming to me at all. Like I’m flying under the radar somehow and I don’t understand how. That often does happen in the kind of, almost the teenage stage of business.
So when we first start our businesses we're sort of the baby designer kind of stage and you put out the website and it’s kind of like whatever kind of copy and we’re trying to be authentic usually, and it could be generic copy. And then we figure out, oh, I like this phrase, that feels more like me. And we start tweaking and changing and all that kind of thing.
But then we hit a stage of business where we’re like, I know myself better. I have more of my own perspective. And I certainly know, I do want to work with that kind of client. And I don’t want to work with that kind of client. I do want more of this project and I don’t want more of that project. Having those realizations.
And there tends to be a feeling at that point of like, this messaging that’s on my website is not fitting anymore. I feel like I’ve outgrown it. It’s just not me. It’s incongruent with who I am now, or where I want to be. So in other words, two basic phases, that teenage phase where I’ve outgrown it, or any phase of business where you’re saying, I’m either not attracting any clients, or I’m attracting the wrong clients, I need to up-level this.
And typically, we’ll say things like bigger, better projects. No more of these pieces and parts. No more of these people calling me to rehang their pictures or pick a paint color. I need to do something better than that, to have a healthy business. Messaging, I would even say 10 times out of 10, is going to help you.
Desi: And I think too, like one other piece of that is really starting to showcase what you’re capable of. That’s like a nuance of the disconnect. But what I’ve seen with some of my clients is they’ve been so busy building their business, and what they’re actually working on, and what they’re calling in, is far beyond what is shown on the website.
And that’s happening because so much of their business is coming in from referrals. And it’s almost like the brand positioning messaging needs to catch up to them, to some extent. So I think that’s another piece to just highlight, because we do get in those cycles of like we’re just in the day to day and things are rolling.
And although I think it’s a different point at which you revisit the messaging and positioning, if you are getting those clients, it’s just like there’s a disconnect between what’s being shown and what is actually happening in your real life, versus maybe you haven’t been attracting quite the right fit and now you want to create the space that’s going to those people in. So I think just calling that out as another possibility as well.
And then I think the feeling piece, I think that is key. Just that internal knowing of like, something feels a little bit off. And pausing, I think whenever anything, you know, our gut is telling us something feels a little bit off, we want to just pause and look and go like, huh, what’s that about? So I’m really glad you called that out. And I know that was something that I was feeling when it prompted me to start looking at like, do I want to maybe revisit some of this messaging?
And again, to your point of it all feels urgent, like you have to do it all at once. I mean, I think I was noticing a little bit of a disconnect between what my website was from like five years ago, and who I’ve become as a coach, the ways that I’ve grown the, you know, greater capacity that I have to serve my clients at this point. And sometimes you can’t do it right away. But it’s like that feeling continues to persist. And it does encourage you to say, all right, now I’m going to make this a priority. And so I really relate to that.
Deb: Yeah. And for designers, I think it can also look like, because we do the comparison game, just as humans, right? But with designers it can also look like, oh, my gosh, she’s doing so great. She’s killing it. And often you’re saying that not because you know that for sure, because you know that person, and you see that person living their life IRL, but because you’re looking at their website and you’re looking at their Instagram.
So what are you looking at? You’re looking at their messaging. Okay? So if you’re looking at other people, other designers, and you’re feeling that feeling like, oh, I wish I had that. Okay, guess what? Maybe they just have their messaging game on point. But also, it’s driving their business to be working.
And I also just want to say to the piece that everything feels urgent and feels important, and I don’t want to say, you know, oh, start with me, because I’m the most important thing. I don’t want to say that, because that’s not necessarily true. And I do often send people away and say, hey, you need to go prioritize your photography or something like that before you work with me.
But I do think because of how I work with my clients, that coming back when something fills off in your business, and when everything is looming and you feel like I need to change it all, and I don’t know where to start, looking at that messaging, and going there can be a place where you find clarity for everything. Like it tends to make everything else fall into place.
It’s kind of like designers like your clients to start with you, because then you help them get clarity around the whole project of like, okay, you do need an architect or you don’t. You do need an engineer to look at this piece for your renovation or you don’t. You do need, like when you work on the messaging with somebody who’s qualified to help you with that, I can and do speak to that kind of thing, right?
So I can look at it holistically and say, hey, you know what? Don’t invest in me yet. You’ve got other fish to fry, like, do your photography right now. Or hey, let’s do the messaging and then that piece is going to fall into place and you won’t have to worry about it, that kind of thing.
Desi: Yeah, for sure. I think clarity is priceless. It becomes your own signal, right? Where you start to then just show up differently. And I know we’re going to talk about that a little bit too.
I want to dive into like, let’s say we’ve been talking here, the designers who are listening and are like, yep, I think it might be time for me to up-level. There’s some kind of mismatch here that’s happening between what I’m doing or what I’m wanting to do and what’s being presented with the world.
Let’s dive in a little bit to like, what are some of the elements that they should be considering as they move into exploring this topic a little bit more, whether that’s on their own or with you?
I know both of us were talking about clarity there. And I know that both of us find so much value in starting with that bigger picture, with what is the vision that you have for your business? And when I work with clients, we always start with a business and life vision where we’re looking at what it is that you want to create for not just your goals in the business, but also the goals you have personally as well, and how those all work in tandem, right? Because we have to know where we’re going or have some idea of it. And I’m pretty sure you’re of the same philosophy.
Deb: I do it too. I am. And yeah, I totally am. And it’s funny because I didn’t fully click that, yes, that’s what I do until within the last six months or so when I went, oh my gosh, no, I am asking them about, first of all, let’s go back to why you started this in the first place.
First of all, a lot of my clients come to me and they’ve never actually visited their messaging. I mean, they put words on their website, but they’ve never really built their messaging. So there is a little bit about let’s go back to page one. Why did you start this business?
I mean, they’ve had so many voices in their heads, and it’s a good thing, all the education, all the support, all the podcasts, all the courses, all the things. But they can lose sight of that internal compass in a way of who they are and why they’re doing what they’re doing. So reminding them of that, and coming back to that, their why and who they are deep inside.
It’s not just because they like playing with fabric. It’s not just that. It’s usually something much deeper, much more human and meaningful. And there’s multiple things in there. So we want to get them back to that for me to help them create their messaging, but mostly for them. So they go, oh yeah. And to point to it and say, that is a guiding light. That is a touchstone. Stay with that. Don’t forget about that and it needs to go in your messaging. You need to put that forward.
But also to say, okay, in your season of life now, what do you need to create? And going forward the next five years, 10 years, it’s easy to say, and this is always true of any work that we do in our businesses where we’re setting goals and working to achieve them. And messaging has to do with that. You know, I can’t just say, oh, here are the offers and we’re speaking to these people, without knowing how many of these do you need to sell to achieve? Like, what are we doing with this?
If you say, I want to make a million dollars this year, but your packaging and pricing, that’s not realistic, I can’t message that. We need to talk about that. We need to make sure really what you want and need. And that’s realistic in any way, shape or form. If you say, I don’t want to hire a team, but I want to offer all these different things, that’s not realistic. We need to talk about that. If you say, hey, I can offer all these things, even though I don’t have a team and this is why, oh, that’s messaging gold.
If you’re at a stage of business where you’re taking care of aging parents and small kids, and your work time is limited, okay, let’s talk about that and let’s message accordingly. And I’m not saying to say that out loud in your messaging, that I’m too busy to work with clients. But I’m saying, let’s navigate your messaging to attract very precisely what you need so that you don’t just get all this influx of all these different people in different project needs that you’re then overwhelmed and you don’t know what to do.
Let’s be surgical about it all and really figure out what to attract into you so that you can navigate your business forward in a way that works for you, that’s success for you. And happiness and joy for you, because really that’s such a huge part of how I define success and how I think most designers want to define their success, right, is making it joyful for them.
Desi: 100%, yeah. I think it’s such a great point thinking about what it is that you’re going to highlight on the website, or in terms of just your services, how you offer things, the types of support that you have in your business. I think it all has to be considered in how you set things up. And I think your life is a huge component of that as well. And I think knowing too, of course, seasons of life change, and so I think it can be helpful when you’re thinking about vision and making decisions around what is it that you need to call in right now, but also thinking about what am I doing to set myself up for the future as well?
You know, maybe this year isn’t going to be the year that you open a storefront. But let’s say that opening a storefront is on the horizon, maybe next year, two years, three years. That’s a good thing to have in mind in terms of how you’re talking about your business now, the types of things that you’re offering. Like what are the even projects or services you’re providing so that you’re starting to build testimonials in a way that would support the marketing of something like that.
So I think it’s amazing to sort of have that farther out view and then bring it back in. And then we can toggle between the two as we make decisions about the here and now, and then also keeping an eye out for what am I doing now that isn’t going to work in the next few years, because we of course have limited capacity as an entrepreneur and we can’t make shifts all the time at the same time. And so how do we build in those building blocks towards change?
And also how do we just make decisions now so we’re not setting ourselves to undo decisions in the future? And of course that happens sometimes anyways, but as much as we can have that foresight is really helpful.
And I think when you’re thinking about a website, you’re forced to make a lot of decisions essentially, right? That’s so much of what I do with clients, is we think about, like we make proactive, intentional decisions.
And as I’m picturing the work that you do, Deb, it’s almost like, because there’s different pages on the website that are going to have to be filled out, you are in a position of making decisions and actually looking at where did the decisions that I have right now, where did those come from? Do I want to keep those decisions? And then what decisions do I want to make moving forward? And it's like this visual template almost.
Deb: Yeah. You’re saying exactly, exactly the bulk of my job is so much is, yes, drawing out of my clients and understanding them, but it’s so in service of making those decisions and helping them make the right decisions.
And as you’re talking about building into the messaging the season of life now and the future and the future of what you want for your business, it is also very much like so many parallels always in the work that I do and the work that designers do, which seems weird, but there are so many parallels. And it’s another one that I’ve never thought of. It just came to mind when you’re helping someone design a brand new house and it’s their forever home and you know they’re going to be aging in place.
So what you do behind the walls like building in those supports for grab bars in the shower and that kind of thing. Like, I mean, not saying that you’re aging in place in your business, but I’m just saying like what you do behind the walls in your messaging, like I’m building in pieces and opportunities into your current existing messaging that will help you pave your path forward when you do, for instance, add the e-commerce piece to your site or whatever in the next three to five years.
Knowing where you want to take your business and knowing where you are now, it’s so important because that helps make your messaging more evergreen, helps me make it more evergreen instead of just pretty words for right now. Like we really want it to be something that is paving your path. I want it to be a business tool.
And like you said, like a member of your team. And we don’t want that member of your team to just be like a part timer that helps you implement a little bit for right now. We want members of your team to grow with your business and continue to be able to help you as you evolve and change.
Desi: Yeah. Okay. Amazing. As my husband would joke, he’d say you’re in violent agreement.
Deb: We are in violent agreement, yes.
Desi: Okay, so in terms of getting ready for that up level and revisiting positioning and messaging, we totally agree, got to start with the business vision. I add in the business and life vision piece of it.
Deb: Yes, totally.
Desi: But I think you’re agreeing with me on that too.
Deb: I’m in violent agreement with that as well.
Desi: Violent agreement, yes. So let’s talk about voice and tone too, because I think that’s a really important piece of this as well. So maybe just tell us what that means to you.
Deb: Yeah. Voice and tone in my philosophical unique point of view, I guess, is showing up authentically in your messaging. And again, giving your prospects a little taste of what it’s actually like to work with you.
So if you are witty and you and your clients just laugh all the time, you know, you are cracking jokes all the time and just the way that you talk and explain things is you’re making them laugh. Why is your copy polished and professional only and not at all witty? Like, why? If you are very supportive and nurturing, and that’s how you connect with your clients, why isn’t that showing up in your copy?
So many designers want to stay in this polished and professional vein in their voice. Well, I don’t want to get outside of that, because I need to sound polished and professional. Yes, and. So there’s polished and professional, then there’s like, warm and friendly and casual, like on a spectrum, I would say. Polished and professional being on one end, warm and friendly, casual on another end.
Most designers, in order to resonate with their ideal clients and give them a true taste of what it’s like to work with them, need to fall on that spectrum somewhere. Very few need to fall all the way polished and professional to resonate with their ideal clients. It’s usually somewhere dialed in between. So we add some warmth and friendliness there.
But also, we want to add in something else specific to you and who you are and your brand also. What is the feeling that we’re trying to evoke? Because we’re not just trying to convey information in your messaging, in your website copy. We’re trying to make a connection. We’re trying to evoke a feeling.
So when we’re doing that, the brand voice does most of that heavy lifting. That’s how you make people feel. And brand voice, when we’re creating that, here we’re going to get a little into the weeds on the copywriting and how that’s created. But you create a brand voice with the different turns of phrase that you use.
Are you asking questions in your copy versus making statements? Are you using short, staccato sentences? Or are you using long, flowy, poetic kind of sounding? All of the ways of writing create a feeling. So we don’t want to just be vanilla and polished. If you go all the way polished and professional, you’re almost corporate, cold. And that’s what I see a lot on a lot of interior design websites.
And I think there’s the attempt to inject personality in aesthetic words. And that’s part of it. But that’s like just barely scratching the surface. We got to go much further. So please don’t be afraid of that as a designer to show up as who you are in those ways.
So when I’m creating a brand voice or working to capture a brand voice, I’m listening for certain turns of phrase that the designer uses again and again. I’m listening for inflection. I’m listening to how they say things. And I’m applying that then to their messaging and their copy.
But we’re also talking about what kind of feeling do you want your website visitors to have? What do you want them to walk away with? And I’m helping them make those decisions too. Do we need them to walk away – Of course, trust is huge. The number one is trust. We want them to walk away trusting you, but different clients are going to trust based on different things.
Desi: Yeah, I think that’s really important too. I have to go back to this idea of the word professional, right? And I’m thinking about how you said a lot of people end up too far on that spectrum of polished and professional. As I’ve been thinking about it as you’ve been speaking, I have to wonder if – I guess there’s two things I’m thinking about right now.
One is if there is that tendency to go to the extreme of professional because a lot of us hold the belief that other people don’t take us seriously or that potential clients don’t value design. And there’s some sort of trying to make up for lack of belief in the value of what we offer in trying to convey an overly professional tone. So that’s one thought process I have.
I think the other piece of it is I think it’s a really narrow definition that we often have of what is professional as well. Because I think about my tone and I think I have a professional voice the way that my brand is presented. But I think there is that warmth to it as well and a little bit of casualness.
And I think in previous lives where I was in corporate design and that kind of thing, I had a really static version of what it was to be professional, of like I need to show up. I need to constantly be working. No one can see me not working. I need to wear these types of clothes and I need to have these accolades and then I’m officially a professional.
And so I have to wonder too if a little bit of that gets muddled in when clients are trying to craft these professional tones on themselves.
Deb: A lot of that. And I love that you’re bringing it up because yes, to the idea of trying to make up for some kind of perceived perception. Like I’m worried, as a designer I’m worried that, as you said, the client might see me as not being professional. So I need to button it up and make it really sound like, no, I’m a business. I’m not a hobbyist. I’m for real.
Yes, but also what I find a lot is designers worried about what other designers are going to think of them.
Desi: Oh yes.
Deb: And I know they have specific people in their head. Such and such and so is going to think I’m a total clown if I show up with a website that’s whatever, right? So I need to sound like the most professional designer you have ever heard. And I understand that and I also hold space for that.
So please know that I’m never, kind of again with these analogies, I would liken it to you all want your clients, typically you want your clients to be comfortable with the style that you’re creating, but you also want to nudge them out of their comfort zone a little bit. That’s what happens with me with voice in this area.
I am fully respectful of the fact that you’re concerned about this, that most designers are concerned about sounding professional. And I will never ever give a brand voice or website copy or messaging that sounds unprofessional, right? That’s not happening. I’m not putting my name on that anyway. If it sounds unprofessional, you’re not ever going to see it because it’s not going on my portfolio.
I want you to sound professional too. I want you to sound super smart. I want you to sound super talented. I want you to sound like all the things. But I also want you to sound like who you really are in some way, shape or form. If I’m working with you, I’m working with you because I think you’re amazing and I think the world needs to know who you are. I think your ideal clients need to know who you are.
And if I could personally walk you around and introduce you to those people, I would. But I can’t do that, so I’m going to introduce you to the world via creating this awesome messaging and website copy for you. So I’m going to do it in a way that helps them understand who you are. And part of that is going beyond professionalism.
So professionalism and polish is the baseline. We create that, yes. But also we add on top of that other authentic aspects of who you are. So I hope that makes sense.
Desi: Yeah, and I think that’s really important to call out. And I think even just from a user experience, we’re talking about the designers’ clients interacting with their website, and then moving along in that client journey. So from initial awareness of the designer or their brand, through looking at different services, to possibly filling out a request to talk to you about their project, to then having that next step.
Providing that congruence for the client along the way, and starting that really with your voice and tone. Because I think about that in my own business, and of course for your clients as well, we don’t ever want someone to be surprised by us when they are actually finally interacting with us. We want them to have a sense of who we are, how we are, how we do things. So that way, by the time we’re actually talking, we already feel like it’s a fit. It’s just more of a logistics or let’s iron out some details or answer some questions.
And so I think it’s really in service to both parties to bring that authenticity that you are mentioning to the voice and to the tone and layering that through all of what you present online.
Deb: Yeah, it is. And it’s not in a way of like, oh, don’t bait and switch them, like they’re going to be disappointed in you. But more like don’t bury the lead. You’re amazing and worthy of them. Your ideal clients need to know how you’re a perfect match for them, how you’re the perfect fit for them.
And if you bury that lead in your website and you don’t create that experience, including in your voice and tone, then if they call you, and that’s a big if, because if you’ve remained only polished and professional, how do they know that they should call you? But if they call you, they’re coming to the call with a potential deficit of trust.
You don’t have to have that. You could have them come to the discovery call with already trust in the trust bank, right? So why wouldn’t you want that? If your website can create that by all these things that we’re talking about, but in particular that voice and tone of them feeling like, I already know, like, and trust you because of your website.
Desi: Yeah, I love that. I think that’s really important.
And I think that really brings us to the last piece of this is knowing what is authentic to you and your company right now and in the future. And I think the importance, of course having that self-knowledge, but then we also have to, once we know what that truth is for us, we have to own it and really be authentic with ourselves and be willing to step outside of that comfort zone of maybe who we believe ourselves to be, who we believe other designers who we think are watching us, clients, other relationships even, your husband, your family, who maybe don’t have a full understanding of what you do.
It really becomes an opportunity to upgrade your self-concept and your identity. I think that’s something we should definitely talk about as well.
Deb: Couldn’t we do like five different podcast episodes with the things that we’re talking about? We really could.
Desi: Yeah, I’m noticing. I’m like, oh gosh, we got to probably do some other topics.
Deb: Also that I’m loquacious and I talk forever. But let’s admit now, we’re not talking about boring copy stuff, right? I’m not talking about where to put the commas. But yeah, that self-knowledge and like you’re talking about, knowing what’s authentic to you.
Again, you’re kind of talking about making some major decisions in order to show up in your business. So I will also say that’s part of the reason to work with a third party, right? To work with somebody else who has perspective. As business owners, we’re too close to it. Like it’s a perspective issue.
We’re kind of inside the jar of our businesses, trying to read the label when we’re trying to make these decisions. Like who am I authentically? I mean, maybe you do know that, but how you translate that into your messaging and your copy is a whole nother matter.
So having somebody who can come in and hear you and see who your ideal clients are and these goals that you’re trying to achieve and make that shift of like, okay, this is who you are authentically, but let’s edit this piece out, they don’t need to know that. And let’s highlight this piece because they really need to know that. That’s where that perspective comes in that is so valuable having somebody else being able to speak to that.
So I would say whether you hire somebody like me or whether you’re having someone who understands the design industry, like maybe a business buddy, a designer business buddy that you trust to help each other with that, have somebody help you with that perspective because it is very hard, no matter how self-aware you are. Especially how self-aware, like the most self-aware people can struggle with that the most. I’m raising my hand for that.
And this idea too, of like stepping into that. And as we kind of talked about this at the top of the episode, if we’re in a place where we’re trying to up-level and get bigger, better projects, and that means a different clientele, that can also mean stepping into a little bit different clientele and leaving behind. The ones who got us here, aren’t necessarily going to get us there. That whole thing.
So it’s like, okay, as we step into this piece of who we are in our authenticity and what we’re really capable of in our messaging, we also have to know, and it can be a speed bump for us. Like, oh, if I show up like this, I know these people, that’s going to be hard because they don’t know me like that. Or that’s incongruent with how I used to be and the offers that I used to offer and whatever.
Desi: That’s a really tricky infliction point for people that I just, sorry to interrupt, I want to make sure we touch on that.
Deb: No, please.
Desi: So if we go back to the first piece of this, we have a vision of where we want to go, right? The vision of our business that we want to create in the next few years, five years, however that timeframe is, like that requires us to be a different version of ourselves, right? We will evolve into version 2.0, 3.0, whatever it is.
And that can be a really shaky time for us internally, where we can see the seeds of possibility of who we’re becoming, but there’s a part of our brain that’s still very much tied to who we were or who we think we currently are. And I think what becomes especially tricky is that when we are in a position where we have to leave people behind or be open to opinions about who we’re becoming, we don’t always have that firm self concept or like that evolved identity. And so it becomes easy to then look for evidence of us not becoming that person.
Like if an old client is like, oh, well – I mean, an old client, hopefully they’d never say something like, well, who do you think you are? But that’s what we picture.
Deb: It’s the story we tell ourselves, yeah.
Desi: And so when we’re in that transition of up-leveling what we believe about ourselves and stepping into that new identity, the brain is looking for evidence to keep us back where we are. It seeks safety and familiarity and efficiency. We have to be very tender and careful with ourselves.
And that is especially where it’s really helpful to have somebody who is a support in your business, like you, like me as a coach, a business friend, whoever it is to help bring you back to like, no, this is where you’re going and I see that you are already that person, but you need to catch up with that concept of yourself.
So I just wanted to call that out because I think so often we want the bigger and better, and we have some inklings of it, but also we have to be willing to navigate those muddy waters of actually stepping into that. And that’s very different. Wanting to navigate those muddy waters is very different work than wanting a bigger, better vision. And I think you need to have both in order to successfully make that transition.
Deb: You do. And I would also say that’s part of the magic, I guess, of messaging, is that the messaging can be your ramp up. It can set those boundaries for you.
When we create the messaging that will help those seeds of your better self take root and make it a reality. When we create that messaging and we’re putting that out into the world, if you lean into the messaging and let the messaging set those boundaries for you so that when you get the calls from, whether it’s the past clients or the new clients who want the smaller projects that would have been great for the older version of yourself that you’re trying to grow out of. If the messaging sets the boundary and you say, I’m so sorry, we don’t have an offer that supports that anymore. And our smallest offer is X, that’s our minimum, blah, blah, blah.
And essentially you’re setting minimum entry points with your messaging. Then you don’t have to lean on feeling like you’re good enough. You can lean on the messaging because there are going to be days that you feel like, I better take that little tiny job.
When you can lean on the messaging that was created strategically based on your goals, based on your business goals and your life goals, strategically to pave this path towards where you want to go, and you know that messaging was made for that purpose, you can confidently answer, respond with that messaging, knowing you’re not killing your business. You’re not doing anything out of turn. And it’s said in a lovely way that you feel okay about saying.
So that’s a big reason to create brand messaging that you feel great about, is to be able to have those answers in your back pocket for those moments.
Desi: Yeah, and that’s really the power of decisions ahead of time.
Deb: Yes.
Desi: I mean, I talk about that with planning and goal setting.
Deb: Messaging is the same.
Desi: It’s the exact same thing where you take a time when you’re feeling grounded, centered, confident, like seeing yourself in possibility. And that’s really when the prefrontal cortex, that higher level thinking part of your brain is at its best. So you take the time when you’re in that head space to make those decisions.
So that way, when you’re in those heightened states of emotion, when maybe leads are a little slower than you wanted them to be, or that client who’s so sweet but just not a fit anymore calls you out of the blue, it’s like you can go back to, hey, I already took care of this decision. Now all that’s required of present me is to follow through.
And I mean, sometimes that can be a challenge too. And that’s a whole nother podcast, but it sets future you up for success. So that’s a great point.
Deb: Look at that. And you just proved it with neuroscience, so there you go.
Desi: I love thinking about the way the brain works.
Deb: That’s so cool.
Desi: Yeah.
Deb: I love that.
Desi: Okay. So as we wrap up, I mean, I think there’s just so many tangents I’d love to go on with you, but I think that gives us three really concrete pillars, I think, for the designers to be thinking about when they’re looking at up-leveling their messaging and positioning. And so I want to recap those for everyone.
So the first, of course, is starting with that vision. Knowing what you want now and in the future, and also really defining what you want your website to do for you and how it serves your business goals. So that’s the first piece.
The second is considering that voice and tone that’s conveyed through messaging and how you really want your ideal clients to feel engaging with your materials. And then the last piece is getting clear on what’s authentic to you and owning it.
So those are the three, we’ll call them the three pillars that you should focus on. And I want to bring it home from our very first comment of like, don’t tune away because this is more about copywriting. So let’s just briefly talk about when you embody and implement the concepts that we’ve been talking about today, really what can happen for you in your interior design business.
We’ve already touched on the bigger and better projects. Let’s talk about a few more. Like you were hinting at showing up differently and more confidently in your day to day. That’s a big one, I think.
Deb: And I can’t tell you how many times, by the way, that when we’re still in process of creating messaging and creating copy with clients, that they will call me or email me and say, oh my gosh, you will not believe the project that just got dropped on my doorstep, the amazing client. Like the change starts happening while we’re still working because they’re showing up differently.
Desi: Yeah. And that’s the evolution of the business owner that we’ve been talking about. I love it.
The other thing we were mentioning when we were brainstorming this is selling more easily. Okay. Isn’t that what everyone wants?
Deb: Please. Yes, please. And thank you.
Desi: Yeah, because if something feels off, it’s going to be really hard to sell. And if something is off, not just feels off to you, the people who are coming to you are not going to be either the people you want to sell to and you’re going to be trying to kind of weasel your way out of it, or you’re going to be trying to turn them down and maybe they’re going to be persistent. And you’re going to be wasting all this time and energy.
Deb: Yeah, or you’re going to be crying because they made you cry. You know, all the awful things that we don’t want for you and you don’t want for yourself.
Desi: Yeah. Versus when you’re the lighthouse that ship is looking for, you two just come together. And that’s really amazing.
The other ones are increased profits. Tell us about that one, Deb.
Deb: Well, I mean, I think kind of like you said, like those perfect matches. When you take the time to think strategically about what you need in your business in terms of the kinds of projects and the kinds of clients, and we really talk about what’s most profitable for you, what’s most enjoyable for you, and we make the decisions about what you’re putting out into the world in your messaging based on those things, I mean, the profits come much more naturally.
Versus like if paint consultations aren’t the most profitable thing in your business, why are we messaging about it, right?
Desi: Yeah. And I think that really speaks to the time and energy saved overall in your business from the time and energy you save from not speaking with ideal clients to increasing the speed from which someone finds you and signs with you. That’s a time saver and energy saver.
Deb: And the trust banks that we talked about. Them coming to you and on the call, they already trust you.
Desi: Yeah. And even just then, if you’re bringing in those bigger and better projects, you’re not spending the time and energy of working on multiple smaller projects. You’re working with clients who trust your process and value your process, so you’re not reinventing the wheel every time.
And then of course, with the bigger and better projects, your portfolio is getting better and that’s going to help you get more media attention too, which is only going to then further fuel the business.
So just so we’re clear, it’s not about words on the page. It’s about words on the page and it’s way more, right?
Deb: I know, right? It’s the hardest thing to describe to people, but I think we’re doing a good job with this episode.
Desi: Agreed. Agreed. All right, Deb. Well, as we wrap up, is there anything else that you really were like, oh, we definitely need to say that or talk about it? Anything else before we sign off? And I’ll of course give you an opportunity to let people know where to find you as well.
Deb: Don’t underestimate the importance of the words you use in your business. And I’m not just talking about describing your aesthetic. Finding the words that help your ideal clients see themselves as your ideal clients and see you as their ideal designer, it’s possible. It takes effort and expertise and perspective and all these different things.
It’s not like you snap your fingers and it can happen or you just look at somebody else’s website and you copy the words. It’s not like that, but it is very possible and it is invaluable. Like in all the ways that we’ve talked about, so clarity and confidence all the way to time saved and profits made, I really believe it is one of the most valuable investments of time and effort you can make in your business to concentrate on your messaging.
Desi: Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you, Deb, for everything that you’ve shared today. I really appreciate it. And it was just a fun conversation for you and I to have together.
Deb: I know, we could talk forever, unfortunately or fortunately for everyone listening. Sorry, not sorry.
Desi: Yeah. All right. So where can people find you, Deb?
Deb: So you can find me on my website, debmitchellwriting.com. You can find me on Instagram, I’m Design Writer Deb. And yeah, I mean, I am also doing an Instagram live series once a month. And Desi’s going to join me soon where I’m interviewing other like-minded service providers who work with interior designers, which has been kind of a cool thing. So, you know, we’re just having fun over there.
So reach out to me with any questions that you have, and of course if you want to work with me. But I’m always happy to meet and speak with mutuals of Desi. And really any interior designers, I love meeting and hearing about your businesses.
Desi: Wonderful. Yes. And I’m looking forward to that Instagram live we’re going to do in December.
Deb: I know, it took us a while to schedule. We have crazy schedules.
Desi: Yeah, it’s sometime in December. So the best bet is to get on my email newsletter and we’ll put the link for that in the show notes, because I’m sure I’ll promote it that way. And then follow Deb on Instagram. But we all know the algorithm doesn’t always show us everything.
Deb: If you follow me on Instagram, you can also sign up with me there to get notified.
Desi: Oh, yeah, that’s right. I always forget about that feature. Okay, amazing. Well, thank you again, Deb. I’m sure we’ll talk again soon.
Deb: Thank you, Desi.
Desi: And for all of you designers listening in, I’ll be back next week with a brand new episode. And as always, I’m wishing you a beautiful week.
Thanks for joining me for this week’s episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit www.desicreswell.com. And if you’re ready to take what you’ve learned on the podcast to the next level, I would love for you to check out my signature group coaching program, Out of Overwhelm.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place. I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Desi: Hello designer, welcome back to the podcast. Today we have a very special guest, my friend and brilliant copywriter, Deb Mitchell. Welcome, Deb, I’m so glad to have you here.
Deb: Hi Desi, I’m so happy to be here. I’m honored to be called your friend, first of all. I call you my friend. So I’m very happy to be here. Always happy to talk to you and thrilled to be talking to your listeners too.
Desi: Yeah, this is going to be a great conversation, I already know it from the prep work we’ve done. I can’t even remember how we first connected, do you remember?
Deb: No, I can’t. I think we knew a few different mutuals and I can’t remember who reached out to who first and I can’t even remember when because I think it was in Covid times when, you know, time was all a construct.
Desi: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. But what I was remembering was just it felt like we were so like-minded, it felt like there was an instant connection, and I’m just really excited to share you with everyone and talk about some of the things we’re going to cover today, which is going to be all about copywriting on your website. But copywriting on your website for your interior design business sounds really boring.
Deb: Yeah, don’t stop listening now, people.
Desi: Don’t tune away.
Deb: I know, I was going to say no. Trust us, it’s not bad.
Desi: Yes, we’ll go into why that is so incredible because it’s going to help you get everything you want in your business. But before we dive into that, Deb, if you could just take a minute for those of the listeners who aren’t familiar with you, if you could just introduce yourself and tell the designers that are listening who you are, what you do, and how you do it.
Deb: Well, my least favorite part, because I do hate sort of talking about myself, which I mean it’s what I am telling all of you to do, is to show up and to talk about yourself and it’s the hardest thing for me to do, right?
But so I am Deb Mitchell, and I own and run Deb Mitchell Writing, which started in about 20 – I was trying to think back because it started sort of in fits and starts, but it officially really launched in 2016. I started in the industry, the design industry working in-house for a designer here in the Charlotte area where I live, and taking all of their client calls and doing all of their sort of client communications, as well as marketing, writing, and all of that kind of thing.
I am not a designer. I once upon a time thought maybe that would be a thing that I wanted to do, like when I was a kid, and then went the route of writing. So this brought those worlds together. So I get to work with designers and in that world, but without all of the, I guess, risk that you guys take of actually being responsible for people’s homes.
So I feel like more in my zone of genius of taking on the responsibility of your businesses and how you show up. And that’s where I feel the most confident. So all this to say, I do brand messaging strategy, and we’re going to talk about what brand messaging really means and copywriting implementation exclusively for interior designers.
So I love to say that because I think it’s so important. I think it’s important that designers hire, particularly when it comes to your branding and marketing and messaging, people who understand the industry. The marketing piece is really nuanced for you and I think it’s very critical that you hire people who understand those nuances and understand not only you, but understand your clients.
Desi: Absolutely. I think the design industry is unique.
Deb: She says with a laugh.
Desi: No, it's amazing and wonderful and there’s so many joys and opportunities that we get to impact the lives of clients that are incredible. And there’s some really unique challenges to the industry too. And I think very unique buyer behavior and the intersection of how you as a service provider interact with the consumer.
And so I think that is really where your expertise can shine when it comes to up-leveling your messaging and your positioning, which is really an essential component of bringing in bigger, better, more profitable clients and better projects that you really want to be working on to your design firm. And I think it takes that nuanced understanding of the industry and the nuanced understanding of what a design consumer would want to be looking at and how they’re interacting with your brand as the designer to really help create those matches on the internet.
I’m just like, all of a sudden I’m thinking about internet dating.
Deb: A thousand percent, yeah, I think about that too.
Desi: Yeah, and I also think one of the other reasons I wanted to have this conversation is the work around branding and messaging becomes so interesting to me as a coach because of the internal growth that is required when you hit that moment where you want to up-level. And that’s what I always say, is when you want your business to grow, you’ve got to grow alongside it. Meaning you have to become that next level version of yourself alongside the business evolving.
And of course, that’s so much of the work that I do with my one-on-one clients. And we’ll definitely be talking about the mindset and the strategy around all of this when it’s really time for that next phase of growth.
Deb: Yes. Say it louder for the people in the back, Desi, because that’s another way that I’m different than just any writer, any good writer, is that we bump up against larger issues than just the words when I work with my clients. And I mean, I often joke that it’s pretty much like a KPI in my business of like, okay, how many times did that client cry?
And it’s like just about everyone cries and usually happy tears, but also the like, oh my gosh, aha tears of like making a connection, making a deeper connection and understanding themselves better through the process that I work with them. And that’s because they hit that mindset stuff because we’re trying to up-level to that next level client and project. And it does require realizations and growth and mindset in them. So anyway.
Desi: Yeah.
And I think those tears often come because I think that’s very true of the relationship that I have with my clients. And we’ve talked a little bit about this, but it’s, you know, obviously I don’t sit around making people cry or anything like that.
Deb: Right.
Desi: I think that it’s so rare these days that we have someone who can hold space for us and allow us to express what we truly want and believe in what we want when we sometimes don’t believe it ourselves, and allow the client to feel seen in the way that designers allow their clients the opportunity to be seen in their expression of their home.
It’s not a common practice, I don’t think even just in our general day-to-day relationships that we have of giving people that space to truly express themselves. And so I think that’s often why tears come too. It’s a bit of a relief of like, oh, I’m safe and this can come out now. And I think that’s a true gift that both of us are able to provide.
Before we dive into kind of the nitty gritty around all of this, I want to make sure that we’re on the same page with the words that we’re using. I think sometimes the words around branding and copywriting and my positioning and all of that can be kind of intimidating. And I’d love for you to just take a moment and define how you talk about brand positioning and messaging.
How do you define both of those for yourself in the work that you do? And also, if you could maybe give us a little sense of how you separate them in terms of what’s the difference.
Deb: Happy to. Brand positioning, well, first of all, let me say this because a little bit of the elephant in the room around all of this talk about words and interior designers is that they often want their images to speak for themselves. They work with a visual medium, they’re visual people, and many times they feel like, why can’t I just put my images out there and attract the right clients? Why can’t they see in the images?
And what I really say to that is, okay, your images can say a lot about you and the work that you do with your clients, but they can’t say everything. So your messaging has to do the rest. The words have to do the rest. It is a very important job.
And I will also say there’s a difference between a PR website and a marketing website. Most of the designers in the industry are in the marketing website bucket. It’s a different topic, but let me just make this distinction. A PR website is usually going to have fewer words because you’re trying to market to, you know, marketing yourself as a celebrity. And it’s your name that you’re putting into licensing kinds of things.
If you are marketing to get interior design clients, paying homeowners who otherwise don’t know you, or even commercial clients who otherwise don’t know you, you need words on your site that help them understand.
Desi: Yeah, it’s kind of like filling in the gap for them.
Deb: It’s filling in the gap. So that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about marketing websites and marketing messaging and positioning.
So back to that question, your original question. Brand positioning is really about where you fit into the marketplace. So part of that is your service area. Let’s say you’re in the Houston area of Texas. Okay, but how far out do you go from the Houston area? Or are you Houston and a certain part of Florida? Because you also have a clientele that has homes there or whatever it is. Defining that local service area.
Part of positioning is also what kind of aesthetic. You know, only from here to here is your aesthetic and you sort of have a signature aesthetic. Or are you from here to here, and you work up to this amount of traditional and up to this amount of modern, depending on your client’s style range? Positioning is all about that cross section of what the clients that you’re marketing to, what they’re looking for and where you fit and where you fill that need.
Messaging is more overarching. Positioning is a piece of messaging, okay? It’s one piece of messaging. And I do, in my services for my clients, I include a positioning statement in their brand messaging that I create for them. So messaging is broader.
Messaging includes positioning. It includes brand voice. It includes who your clients are and what they really value and how you’re speaking to them. It includes your unique point of view on design and serving your clients and how you work. It includes even how you describe your services, how you describe your process.
So does that make sense? Does that kind of distinguish positioning versus messaging?
Desi: Yeah. The important piece, too, here is like for anyone listening, you don’t have to totally get it.
Deb: Was that confusing?
Desi: Well, I work with a lot of designers who they’re used to being type A perfectionists, right? And so I just want to encourage anyone who’s listening and thinking about, oh, what’s my positioning versus my messaging to not get too tangled up in making sure that you get it right in terms of like, oh, this is this exact thing. And this is this exact thing.
Just take what Deb is saying kind of as an umbrella of how you start to think about how you talk about your business or how you present it in different ways and run with that.
Deb: Yes.
Desi: I hope you’re okay with that advice.
Deb: I’m glad you said that because actually to fully nail your positioning and your messaging, you would have to be a trained and practiced marketer.
Desi: Yes, exactly. And so often we expect ourselves to have these various roles or positions that we sort of give ourselves in our business that we really have no business giving ourselves. So I just wanted to throw in that little side note.
Deb: I’m glad you said that. And that is fair and I completely agree. Often clients come to me and they’re beating themselves up. I don’t know why I can’t do this. I don’t know why I can’t nail my messaging. I feel like, why do I need you? I don’t know why, but I feel like I do. And I’m like, because it’s not your job.
Desi: Yeah. And I mean, really it’s similar to the designer/client relationship where the client is like, thank goodness you’re here to solve my problems. We don’t judge the client for not being able to figure it out on their own. We’re glad they can’t figure it out on their own, it gives us the opportunity to do it for them, right? And if they’re believing that they can do it too much on their own, then we actually get annoyed. So just cut yourself some slack.
Deb: Yes. But I would also say, with all respect to designers, it’s because you’re so smart and because you know your clients so well, you think you need to be able to do this. But that’s just not true.
Desi: Yes. It’s totally true. Totally true. Yeah.
Okay, so now that we’ve got a little bit of clarity around brand positioning versus messaging and how the two intersect, what are some of the ways that messaging and positioning are going to show up in your business and how a designer would be using it exactly?
Deb: So, I mean, the main way is your website copy. That being the main hub for your messaging. Also, because, not only because that’s the main place that people tend to go to check you out. Even if you get most of your clients via referral, they’re tending to go to your website to check you out, right? But also because your website is kind of the most complete place for that complete picture of who you are, what you do, how you work, what your aesthetic is, all of those different kinds of things.
You have the most opportunity on your website to paint that picture with your messaging of, you know, what this whole experience is going to be like. It’s the place to give those prospects a taste of what you’re really all about in all the different ways, process down to personality.
So that, to me, is, okay, that’s a starting point. Let’s complete that picture there. And then everything else that you put out into the world, be it social media or client facing documents like welcome packets and proposals and all those kinds of things should include your messaging, but they’re going to give pieces and parts of your messaging, as opposed to that full cohesive package.
So when I work with a client, we create the brand messaging as a whole, then we’ll do the website copy. And then we want to work on, if there are other pieces that need to be worked on then we want to carry out the messaging to make the whole experience cohesive across the board.
So we don’t start with the little pieces and parts and build into the website.
Desi: I think that’s a great way to be thinking about it. And I think one of the key pieces that we were talking about here is just, you’re essentially creating the signals that you’re sending out into the world. Whether that’s through the full, like the most comprehensive piece of your messaging, which is the website, or if you’re using pieces of it to send out in different ways, it’s all sending signals to the people who you want to reach, and really helping them opt in to what you’re doing or possibly self-select out and say, nope, this is not for me.
And as we were talking about this, I’m thinking about how essentially your website and of course your other materials that you’re using really almost become like this team member that is helping you filter out clients who do not belong in your business. And also helping to then call in. It becomes a piece of your team where you have almost like your marketing manager or somebody who’s doing the work for you.
Deb: Yes, it does. I mean, you can think of it in so many different ways. You can think of it like a filter. You can think of it like a bouncer or a doorman. But I kind of like to think of it like going back to that PR website versus a marketing website, whereas a PR website is kind of like a spotlight on you, a marketing website is making you like a lighthouse. And a lighthouse sends the signal to the ship, right? So sending the signal that says to the ship, you’re in the right place or, no, keep going.
I think that’s such a nice way to think of it for so many of my clients because so many of my clients also feel like I don’t want a spotlight on me. I don’t like that icky marketing. That feels gross to me. So to think of themselves as a lighthouse and presenting themselves in that way, yeah, it’s still shining a light, but it’s to send a signal to call in the right people and to send the wrong people on. So I think that analogy just makes a lot of sense.
Desi: Yeah, I love that. And as we’re talking about these various components, it’s clear that this is an important piece of an interior designer’s business, is to have this positioning and messaging ironed out and put in a really cohesive place and format for a client to find the signal or to notice the signal.
And I think designers, as they’re listening to this, might be thinking, okay, I know this is important and there’s lots of things that I want to invest in, I want to do in my business. How do I know when it’s a good time to revisit my brand messaging and positioning? Could you speak to that?
Deb: Yeah. And I know it’s so hard because all these different investments feel urgent and important all at the same time, always, right? So I know it’s hard to prioritize that kind of thing, but I do think, first of all, experientially from when people are coming to me, it’s not only when, okay, I’m going to get a whole new website. It’s time to get the new copy. I mean, yes, that is a time to do that.
But also, and I think more importantly, when you see I’m having a problem here, the people that are coming to me are not the right people, or I’m not getting people coming to me at all. Like I’m flying under the radar somehow and I don’t understand how. That often does happen in the kind of, almost the teenage stage of business.
So when we first start our businesses we're sort of the baby designer kind of stage and you put out the website and it’s kind of like whatever kind of copy and we’re trying to be authentic usually, and it could be generic copy. And then we figure out, oh, I like this phrase, that feels more like me. And we start tweaking and changing and all that kind of thing.
But then we hit a stage of business where we’re like, I know myself better. I have more of my own perspective. And I certainly know, I do want to work with that kind of client. And I don’t want to work with that kind of client. I do want more of this project and I don’t want more of that project. Having those realizations.
And there tends to be a feeling at that point of like, this messaging that’s on my website is not fitting anymore. I feel like I’ve outgrown it. It’s just not me. It’s incongruent with who I am now, or where I want to be. So in other words, two basic phases, that teenage phase where I’ve outgrown it, or any phase of business where you’re saying, I’m either not attracting any clients, or I’m attracting the wrong clients, I need to up-level this.
And typically, we’ll say things like bigger, better projects. No more of these pieces and parts. No more of these people calling me to rehang their pictures or pick a paint color. I need to do something better than that, to have a healthy business. Messaging, I would even say 10 times out of 10, is going to help you.
Desi: And I think too, like one other piece of that is really starting to showcase what you’re capable of. That’s like a nuance of the disconnect. But what I’ve seen with some of my clients is they’ve been so busy building their business, and what they’re actually working on, and what they’re calling in, is far beyond what is shown on the website.
And that’s happening because so much of their business is coming in from referrals. And it’s almost like the brand positioning messaging needs to catch up to them, to some extent. So I think that’s another piece to just highlight, because we do get in those cycles of like we’re just in the day to day and things are rolling.
And although I think it’s a different point at which you revisit the messaging and positioning, if you are getting those clients, it’s just like there’s a disconnect between what’s being shown and what is actually happening in your real life, versus maybe you haven’t been attracting quite the right fit and now you want to create the space that’s going to those people in. So I think just calling that out as another possibility as well.
And then I think the feeling piece, I think that is key. Just that internal knowing of like, something feels a little bit off. And pausing, I think whenever anything, you know, our gut is telling us something feels a little bit off, we want to just pause and look and go like, huh, what’s that about? So I’m really glad you called that out. And I know that was something that I was feeling when it prompted me to start looking at like, do I want to maybe revisit some of this messaging?
And again, to your point of it all feels urgent, like you have to do it all at once. I mean, I think I was noticing a little bit of a disconnect between what my website was from like five years ago, and who I’ve become as a coach, the ways that I’ve grown the, you know, greater capacity that I have to serve my clients at this point. And sometimes you can’t do it right away. But it’s like that feeling continues to persist. And it does encourage you to say, all right, now I’m going to make this a priority. And so I really relate to that.
Deb: Yeah. And for designers, I think it can also look like, because we do the comparison game, just as humans, right? But with designers it can also look like, oh, my gosh, she’s doing so great. She’s killing it. And often you’re saying that not because you know that for sure, because you know that person, and you see that person living their life IRL, but because you’re looking at their website and you’re looking at their Instagram.
So what are you looking at? You’re looking at their messaging. Okay? So if you’re looking at other people, other designers, and you’re feeling that feeling like, oh, I wish I had that. Okay, guess what? Maybe they just have their messaging game on point. But also, it’s driving their business to be working.
And I also just want to say to the piece that everything feels urgent and feels important, and I don’t want to say, you know, oh, start with me, because I’m the most important thing. I don’t want to say that, because that’s not necessarily true. And I do often send people away and say, hey, you need to go prioritize your photography or something like that before you work with me.
But I do think because of how I work with my clients, that coming back when something fills off in your business, and when everything is looming and you feel like I need to change it all, and I don’t know where to start, looking at that messaging, and going there can be a place where you find clarity for everything. Like it tends to make everything else fall into place.
It’s kind of like designers like your clients to start with you, because then you help them get clarity around the whole project of like, okay, you do need an architect or you don’t. You do need an engineer to look at this piece for your renovation or you don’t. You do need, like when you work on the messaging with somebody who’s qualified to help you with that, I can and do speak to that kind of thing, right?
So I can look at it holistically and say, hey, you know what? Don’t invest in me yet. You’ve got other fish to fry, like, do your photography right now. Or hey, let’s do the messaging and then that piece is going to fall into place and you won’t have to worry about it, that kind of thing.
Desi: Yeah, for sure. I think clarity is priceless. It becomes your own signal, right? Where you start to then just show up differently. And I know we’re going to talk about that a little bit too.
I want to dive into like, let’s say we’ve been talking here, the designers who are listening and are like, yep, I think it might be time for me to up-level. There’s some kind of mismatch here that’s happening between what I’m doing or what I’m wanting to do and what’s being presented with the world.
Let’s dive in a little bit to like, what are some of the elements that they should be considering as they move into exploring this topic a little bit more, whether that’s on their own or with you?
I know both of us were talking about clarity there. And I know that both of us find so much value in starting with that bigger picture, with what is the vision that you have for your business? And when I work with clients, we always start with a business and life vision where we’re looking at what it is that you want to create for not just your goals in the business, but also the goals you have personally as well, and how those all work in tandem, right? Because we have to know where we’re going or have some idea of it. And I’m pretty sure you’re of the same philosophy.
Deb: I do it too. I am. And yeah, I totally am. And it’s funny because I didn’t fully click that, yes, that’s what I do until within the last six months or so when I went, oh my gosh, no, I am asking them about, first of all, let’s go back to why you started this in the first place.
First of all, a lot of my clients come to me and they’ve never actually visited their messaging. I mean, they put words on their website, but they’ve never really built their messaging. So there is a little bit about let’s go back to page one. Why did you start this business?
I mean, they’ve had so many voices in their heads, and it’s a good thing, all the education, all the support, all the podcasts, all the courses, all the things. But they can lose sight of that internal compass in a way of who they are and why they’re doing what they’re doing. So reminding them of that, and coming back to that, their why and who they are deep inside.
It’s not just because they like playing with fabric. It’s not just that. It’s usually something much deeper, much more human and meaningful. And there’s multiple things in there. So we want to get them back to that for me to help them create their messaging, but mostly for them. So they go, oh yeah. And to point to it and say, that is a guiding light. That is a touchstone. Stay with that. Don’t forget about that and it needs to go in your messaging. You need to put that forward.
But also to say, okay, in your season of life now, what do you need to create? And going forward the next five years, 10 years, it’s easy to say, and this is always true of any work that we do in our businesses where we’re setting goals and working to achieve them. And messaging has to do with that. You know, I can’t just say, oh, here are the offers and we’re speaking to these people, without knowing how many of these do you need to sell to achieve? Like, what are we doing with this?
If you say, I want to make a million dollars this year, but your packaging and pricing, that’s not realistic, I can’t message that. We need to talk about that. We need to make sure really what you want and need. And that’s realistic in any way, shape or form. If you say, I don’t want to hire a team, but I want to offer all these different things, that’s not realistic. We need to talk about that. If you say, hey, I can offer all these things, even though I don’t have a team and this is why, oh, that’s messaging gold.
If you’re at a stage of business where you’re taking care of aging parents and small kids, and your work time is limited, okay, let’s talk about that and let’s message accordingly. And I’m not saying to say that out loud in your messaging, that I’m too busy to work with clients. But I’m saying, let’s navigate your messaging to attract very precisely what you need so that you don’t just get all this influx of all these different people in different project needs that you’re then overwhelmed and you don’t know what to do.
Let’s be surgical about it all and really figure out what to attract into you so that you can navigate your business forward in a way that works for you, that’s success for you. And happiness and joy for you, because really that’s such a huge part of how I define success and how I think most designers want to define their success, right, is making it joyful for them.
Desi: 100%, yeah. I think it’s such a great point thinking about what it is that you’re going to highlight on the website, or in terms of just your services, how you offer things, the types of support that you have in your business. I think it all has to be considered in how you set things up. And I think your life is a huge component of that as well. And I think knowing too, of course, seasons of life change, and so I think it can be helpful when you’re thinking about vision and making decisions around what is it that you need to call in right now, but also thinking about what am I doing to set myself up for the future as well?
You know, maybe this year isn’t going to be the year that you open a storefront. But let’s say that opening a storefront is on the horizon, maybe next year, two years, three years. That’s a good thing to have in mind in terms of how you’re talking about your business now, the types of things that you’re offering. Like what are the even projects or services you’re providing so that you’re starting to build testimonials in a way that would support the marketing of something like that.
So I think it’s amazing to sort of have that farther out view and then bring it back in. And then we can toggle between the two as we make decisions about the here and now, and then also keeping an eye out for what am I doing now that isn’t going to work in the next few years, because we of course have limited capacity as an entrepreneur and we can’t make shifts all the time at the same time. And so how do we build in those building blocks towards change?
And also how do we just make decisions now so we’re not setting ourselves to undo decisions in the future? And of course that happens sometimes anyways, but as much as we can have that foresight is really helpful.
And I think when you’re thinking about a website, you’re forced to make a lot of decisions essentially, right? That’s so much of what I do with clients, is we think about, like we make proactive, intentional decisions.
And as I’m picturing the work that you do, Deb, it’s almost like, because there’s different pages on the website that are going to have to be filled out, you are in a position of making decisions and actually looking at where did the decisions that I have right now, where did those come from? Do I want to keep those decisions? And then what decisions do I want to make moving forward? And it's like this visual template almost.
Deb: Yeah. You’re saying exactly, exactly the bulk of my job is so much is, yes, drawing out of my clients and understanding them, but it’s so in service of making those decisions and helping them make the right decisions.
And as you’re talking about building into the messaging the season of life now and the future and the future of what you want for your business, it is also very much like so many parallels always in the work that I do and the work that designers do, which seems weird, but there are so many parallels. And it’s another one that I’ve never thought of. It just came to mind when you’re helping someone design a brand new house and it’s their forever home and you know they’re going to be aging in place.
So what you do behind the walls like building in those supports for grab bars in the shower and that kind of thing. Like, I mean, not saying that you’re aging in place in your business, but I’m just saying like what you do behind the walls in your messaging, like I’m building in pieces and opportunities into your current existing messaging that will help you pave your path forward when you do, for instance, add the e-commerce piece to your site or whatever in the next three to five years.
Knowing where you want to take your business and knowing where you are now, it’s so important because that helps make your messaging more evergreen, helps me make it more evergreen instead of just pretty words for right now. Like we really want it to be something that is paving your path. I want it to be a business tool.
And like you said, like a member of your team. And we don’t want that member of your team to just be like a part timer that helps you implement a little bit for right now. We want members of your team to grow with your business and continue to be able to help you as you evolve and change.
Desi: Yeah. Okay. Amazing. As my husband would joke, he’d say you’re in violent agreement.
Deb: We are in violent agreement, yes.
Desi: Okay, so in terms of getting ready for that up level and revisiting positioning and messaging, we totally agree, got to start with the business vision. I add in the business and life vision piece of it.
Deb: Yes, totally.
Desi: But I think you’re agreeing with me on that too.
Deb: I’m in violent agreement with that as well.
Desi: Violent agreement, yes. So let’s talk about voice and tone too, because I think that’s a really important piece of this as well. So maybe just tell us what that means to you.
Deb: Yeah. Voice and tone in my philosophical unique point of view, I guess, is showing up authentically in your messaging. And again, giving your prospects a little taste of what it’s actually like to work with you.
So if you are witty and you and your clients just laugh all the time, you know, you are cracking jokes all the time and just the way that you talk and explain things is you’re making them laugh. Why is your copy polished and professional only and not at all witty? Like, why? If you are very supportive and nurturing, and that’s how you connect with your clients, why isn’t that showing up in your copy?
So many designers want to stay in this polished and professional vein in their voice. Well, I don’t want to get outside of that, because I need to sound polished and professional. Yes, and. So there’s polished and professional, then there’s like, warm and friendly and casual, like on a spectrum, I would say. Polished and professional being on one end, warm and friendly, casual on another end.
Most designers, in order to resonate with their ideal clients and give them a true taste of what it’s like to work with them, need to fall on that spectrum somewhere. Very few need to fall all the way polished and professional to resonate with their ideal clients. It’s usually somewhere dialed in between. So we add some warmth and friendliness there.
But also, we want to add in something else specific to you and who you are and your brand also. What is the feeling that we’re trying to evoke? Because we’re not just trying to convey information in your messaging, in your website copy. We’re trying to make a connection. We’re trying to evoke a feeling.
So when we’re doing that, the brand voice does most of that heavy lifting. That’s how you make people feel. And brand voice, when we’re creating that, here we’re going to get a little into the weeds on the copywriting and how that’s created. But you create a brand voice with the different turns of phrase that you use.
Are you asking questions in your copy versus making statements? Are you using short, staccato sentences? Or are you using long, flowy, poetic kind of sounding? All of the ways of writing create a feeling. So we don’t want to just be vanilla and polished. If you go all the way polished and professional, you’re almost corporate, cold. And that’s what I see a lot on a lot of interior design websites.
And I think there’s the attempt to inject personality in aesthetic words. And that’s part of it. But that’s like just barely scratching the surface. We got to go much further. So please don’t be afraid of that as a designer to show up as who you are in those ways.
So when I’m creating a brand voice or working to capture a brand voice, I’m listening for certain turns of phrase that the designer uses again and again. I’m listening for inflection. I’m listening to how they say things. And I’m applying that then to their messaging and their copy.
But we’re also talking about what kind of feeling do you want your website visitors to have? What do you want them to walk away with? And I’m helping them make those decisions too. Do we need them to walk away – Of course, trust is huge. The number one is trust. We want them to walk away trusting you, but different clients are going to trust based on different things.
Desi: Yeah, I think that’s really important too. I have to go back to this idea of the word professional, right? And I’m thinking about how you said a lot of people end up too far on that spectrum of polished and professional. As I’ve been thinking about it as you’ve been speaking, I have to wonder if – I guess there’s two things I’m thinking about right now.
One is if there is that tendency to go to the extreme of professional because a lot of us hold the belief that other people don’t take us seriously or that potential clients don’t value design. And there’s some sort of trying to make up for lack of belief in the value of what we offer in trying to convey an overly professional tone. So that’s one thought process I have.
I think the other piece of it is I think it’s a really narrow definition that we often have of what is professional as well. Because I think about my tone and I think I have a professional voice the way that my brand is presented. But I think there is that warmth to it as well and a little bit of casualness.
And I think in previous lives where I was in corporate design and that kind of thing, I had a really static version of what it was to be professional, of like I need to show up. I need to constantly be working. No one can see me not working. I need to wear these types of clothes and I need to have these accolades and then I’m officially a professional.
And so I have to wonder too if a little bit of that gets muddled in when clients are trying to craft these professional tones on themselves.
Deb: A lot of that. And I love that you’re bringing it up because yes, to the idea of trying to make up for some kind of perceived perception. Like I’m worried, as a designer I’m worried that, as you said, the client might see me as not being professional. So I need to button it up and make it really sound like, no, I’m a business. I’m not a hobbyist. I’m for real.
Yes, but also what I find a lot is designers worried about what other designers are going to think of them.
Desi: Oh yes.
Deb: And I know they have specific people in their head. Such and such and so is going to think I’m a total clown if I show up with a website that’s whatever, right? So I need to sound like the most professional designer you have ever heard. And I understand that and I also hold space for that.
So please know that I’m never, kind of again with these analogies, I would liken it to you all want your clients, typically you want your clients to be comfortable with the style that you’re creating, but you also want to nudge them out of their comfort zone a little bit. That’s what happens with me with voice in this area.
I am fully respectful of the fact that you’re concerned about this, that most designers are concerned about sounding professional. And I will never ever give a brand voice or website copy or messaging that sounds unprofessional, right? That’s not happening. I’m not putting my name on that anyway. If it sounds unprofessional, you’re not ever going to see it because it’s not going on my portfolio.
I want you to sound professional too. I want you to sound super smart. I want you to sound super talented. I want you to sound like all the things. But I also want you to sound like who you really are in some way, shape or form. If I’m working with you, I’m working with you because I think you’re amazing and I think the world needs to know who you are. I think your ideal clients need to know who you are.
And if I could personally walk you around and introduce you to those people, I would. But I can’t do that, so I’m going to introduce you to the world via creating this awesome messaging and website copy for you. So I’m going to do it in a way that helps them understand who you are. And part of that is going beyond professionalism.
So professionalism and polish is the baseline. We create that, yes. But also we add on top of that other authentic aspects of who you are. So I hope that makes sense.
Desi: Yeah, and I think that’s really important to call out. And I think even just from a user experience, we’re talking about the designers’ clients interacting with their website, and then moving along in that client journey. So from initial awareness of the designer or their brand, through looking at different services, to possibly filling out a request to talk to you about their project, to then having that next step.
Providing that congruence for the client along the way, and starting that really with your voice and tone. Because I think about that in my own business, and of course for your clients as well, we don’t ever want someone to be surprised by us when they are actually finally interacting with us. We want them to have a sense of who we are, how we are, how we do things. So that way, by the time we’re actually talking, we already feel like it’s a fit. It’s just more of a logistics or let’s iron out some details or answer some questions.
And so I think it’s really in service to both parties to bring that authenticity that you are mentioning to the voice and to the tone and layering that through all of what you present online.
Deb: Yeah, it is. And it’s not in a way of like, oh, don’t bait and switch them, like they’re going to be disappointed in you. But more like don’t bury the lead. You’re amazing and worthy of them. Your ideal clients need to know how you’re a perfect match for them, how you’re the perfect fit for them.
And if you bury that lead in your website and you don’t create that experience, including in your voice and tone, then if they call you, and that’s a big if, because if you’ve remained only polished and professional, how do they know that they should call you? But if they call you, they’re coming to the call with a potential deficit of trust.
You don’t have to have that. You could have them come to the discovery call with already trust in the trust bank, right? So why wouldn’t you want that? If your website can create that by all these things that we’re talking about, but in particular that voice and tone of them feeling like, I already know, like, and trust you because of your website.
Desi: Yeah, I love that. I think that’s really important.
And I think that really brings us to the last piece of this is knowing what is authentic to you and your company right now and in the future. And I think the importance, of course having that self-knowledge, but then we also have to, once we know what that truth is for us, we have to own it and really be authentic with ourselves and be willing to step outside of that comfort zone of maybe who we believe ourselves to be, who we believe other designers who we think are watching us, clients, other relationships even, your husband, your family, who maybe don’t have a full understanding of what you do.
It really becomes an opportunity to upgrade your self-concept and your identity. I think that’s something we should definitely talk about as well.
Deb: Couldn’t we do like five different podcast episodes with the things that we’re talking about? We really could.
Desi: Yeah, I’m noticing. I’m like, oh gosh, we got to probably do some other topics.
Deb: Also that I’m loquacious and I talk forever. But let’s admit now, we’re not talking about boring copy stuff, right? I’m not talking about where to put the commas. But yeah, that self-knowledge and like you’re talking about, knowing what’s authentic to you.
Again, you’re kind of talking about making some major decisions in order to show up in your business. So I will also say that’s part of the reason to work with a third party, right? To work with somebody else who has perspective. As business owners, we’re too close to it. Like it’s a perspective issue.
We’re kind of inside the jar of our businesses, trying to read the label when we’re trying to make these decisions. Like who am I authentically? I mean, maybe you do know that, but how you translate that into your messaging and your copy is a whole nother matter.
So having somebody who can come in and hear you and see who your ideal clients are and these goals that you’re trying to achieve and make that shift of like, okay, this is who you are authentically, but let’s edit this piece out, they don’t need to know that. And let’s highlight this piece because they really need to know that. That’s where that perspective comes in that is so valuable having somebody else being able to speak to that.
So I would say whether you hire somebody like me or whether you’re having someone who understands the design industry, like maybe a business buddy, a designer business buddy that you trust to help each other with that, have somebody help you with that perspective because it is very hard, no matter how self-aware you are. Especially how self-aware, like the most self-aware people can struggle with that the most. I’m raising my hand for that.
And this idea too, of like stepping into that. And as we kind of talked about this at the top of the episode, if we’re in a place where we’re trying to up-level and get bigger, better projects, and that means a different clientele, that can also mean stepping into a little bit different clientele and leaving behind. The ones who got us here, aren’t necessarily going to get us there. That whole thing.
So it’s like, okay, as we step into this piece of who we are in our authenticity and what we’re really capable of in our messaging, we also have to know, and it can be a speed bump for us. Like, oh, if I show up like this, I know these people, that’s going to be hard because they don’t know me like that. Or that’s incongruent with how I used to be and the offers that I used to offer and whatever.
Desi: That’s a really tricky infliction point for people that I just, sorry to interrupt, I want to make sure we touch on that.
Deb: No, please.
Desi: So if we go back to the first piece of this, we have a vision of where we want to go, right? The vision of our business that we want to create in the next few years, five years, however that timeframe is, like that requires us to be a different version of ourselves, right? We will evolve into version 2.0, 3.0, whatever it is.
And that can be a really shaky time for us internally, where we can see the seeds of possibility of who we’re becoming, but there’s a part of our brain that’s still very much tied to who we were or who we think we currently are. And I think what becomes especially tricky is that when we are in a position where we have to leave people behind or be open to opinions about who we’re becoming, we don’t always have that firm self concept or like that evolved identity. And so it becomes easy to then look for evidence of us not becoming that person.
Like if an old client is like, oh, well – I mean, an old client, hopefully they’d never say something like, well, who do you think you are? But that’s what we picture.
Deb: It’s the story we tell ourselves, yeah.
Desi: And so when we’re in that transition of up-leveling what we believe about ourselves and stepping into that new identity, the brain is looking for evidence to keep us back where we are. It seeks safety and familiarity and efficiency. We have to be very tender and careful with ourselves.
And that is especially where it’s really helpful to have somebody who is a support in your business, like you, like me as a coach, a business friend, whoever it is to help bring you back to like, no, this is where you’re going and I see that you are already that person, but you need to catch up with that concept of yourself.
So I just wanted to call that out because I think so often we want the bigger and better, and we have some inklings of it, but also we have to be willing to navigate those muddy waters of actually stepping into that. And that’s very different. Wanting to navigate those muddy waters is very different work than wanting a bigger, better vision. And I think you need to have both in order to successfully make that transition.
Deb: You do. And I would also say that’s part of the magic, I guess, of messaging, is that the messaging can be your ramp up. It can set those boundaries for you.
When we create the messaging that will help those seeds of your better self take root and make it a reality. When we create that messaging and we’re putting that out into the world, if you lean into the messaging and let the messaging set those boundaries for you so that when you get the calls from, whether it’s the past clients or the new clients who want the smaller projects that would have been great for the older version of yourself that you’re trying to grow out of. If the messaging sets the boundary and you say, I’m so sorry, we don’t have an offer that supports that anymore. And our smallest offer is X, that’s our minimum, blah, blah, blah.
And essentially you’re setting minimum entry points with your messaging. Then you don’t have to lean on feeling like you’re good enough. You can lean on the messaging because there are going to be days that you feel like, I better take that little tiny job.
When you can lean on the messaging that was created strategically based on your goals, based on your business goals and your life goals, strategically to pave this path towards where you want to go, and you know that messaging was made for that purpose, you can confidently answer, respond with that messaging, knowing you’re not killing your business. You’re not doing anything out of turn. And it’s said in a lovely way that you feel okay about saying.
So that’s a big reason to create brand messaging that you feel great about, is to be able to have those answers in your back pocket for those moments.
Desi: Yeah, and that’s really the power of decisions ahead of time.
Deb: Yes.
Desi: I mean, I talk about that with planning and goal setting.
Deb: Messaging is the same.
Desi: It’s the exact same thing where you take a time when you’re feeling grounded, centered, confident, like seeing yourself in possibility. And that’s really when the prefrontal cortex, that higher level thinking part of your brain is at its best. So you take the time when you’re in that head space to make those decisions.
So that way, when you’re in those heightened states of emotion, when maybe leads are a little slower than you wanted them to be, or that client who’s so sweet but just not a fit anymore calls you out of the blue, it’s like you can go back to, hey, I already took care of this decision. Now all that’s required of present me is to follow through.
And I mean, sometimes that can be a challenge too. And that’s a whole nother podcast, but it sets future you up for success. So that’s a great point.
Deb: Look at that. And you just proved it with neuroscience, so there you go.
Desi: I love thinking about the way the brain works.
Deb: That’s so cool.
Desi: Yeah.
Deb: I love that.
Desi: Okay. So as we wrap up, I mean, I think there’s just so many tangents I’d love to go on with you, but I think that gives us three really concrete pillars, I think, for the designers to be thinking about when they’re looking at up-leveling their messaging and positioning. And so I want to recap those for everyone.
So the first, of course, is starting with that vision. Knowing what you want now and in the future, and also really defining what you want your website to do for you and how it serves your business goals. So that’s the first piece.
The second is considering that voice and tone that’s conveyed through messaging and how you really want your ideal clients to feel engaging with your materials. And then the last piece is getting clear on what’s authentic to you and owning it.
So those are the three, we’ll call them the three pillars that you should focus on. And I want to bring it home from our very first comment of like, don’t tune away because this is more about copywriting. So let’s just briefly talk about when you embody and implement the concepts that we’ve been talking about today, really what can happen for you in your interior design business.
We’ve already touched on the bigger and better projects. Let’s talk about a few more. Like you were hinting at showing up differently and more confidently in your day to day. That’s a big one, I think.
Deb: And I can’t tell you how many times, by the way, that when we’re still in process of creating messaging and creating copy with clients, that they will call me or email me and say, oh my gosh, you will not believe the project that just got dropped on my doorstep, the amazing client. Like the change starts happening while we’re still working because they’re showing up differently.
Desi: Yeah. And that’s the evolution of the business owner that we’ve been talking about. I love it.
The other thing we were mentioning when we were brainstorming this is selling more easily. Okay. Isn’t that what everyone wants?
Deb: Please. Yes, please. And thank you.
Desi: Yeah, because if something feels off, it’s going to be really hard to sell. And if something is off, not just feels off to you, the people who are coming to you are not going to be either the people you want to sell to and you’re going to be trying to kind of weasel your way out of it, or you’re going to be trying to turn them down and maybe they’re going to be persistent. And you’re going to be wasting all this time and energy.
Deb: Yeah, or you’re going to be crying because they made you cry. You know, all the awful things that we don’t want for you and you don’t want for yourself.
Desi: Yeah. Versus when you’re the lighthouse that ship is looking for, you two just come together. And that’s really amazing.
The other ones are increased profits. Tell us about that one, Deb.
Deb: Well, I mean, I think kind of like you said, like those perfect matches. When you take the time to think strategically about what you need in your business in terms of the kinds of projects and the kinds of clients, and we really talk about what’s most profitable for you, what’s most enjoyable for you, and we make the decisions about what you’re putting out into the world in your messaging based on those things, I mean, the profits come much more naturally.
Versus like if paint consultations aren’t the most profitable thing in your business, why are we messaging about it, right?
Desi: Yeah. And I think that really speaks to the time and energy saved overall in your business from the time and energy you save from not speaking with ideal clients to increasing the speed from which someone finds you and signs with you. That’s a time saver and energy saver.
Deb: And the trust banks that we talked about. Them coming to you and on the call, they already trust you.
Desi: Yeah. And even just then, if you’re bringing in those bigger and better projects, you’re not spending the time and energy of working on multiple smaller projects. You’re working with clients who trust your process and value your process, so you’re not reinventing the wheel every time.
And then of course, with the bigger and better projects, your portfolio is getting better and that’s going to help you get more media attention too, which is only going to then further fuel the business.
So just so we’re clear, it’s not about words on the page. It’s about words on the page and it’s way more, right?
Deb: I know, right? It’s the hardest thing to describe to people, but I think we’re doing a good job with this episode.
Desi: Agreed. Agreed. All right, Deb. Well, as we wrap up, is there anything else that you really were like, oh, we definitely need to say that or talk about it? Anything else before we sign off? And I’ll of course give you an opportunity to let people know where to find you as well.
Deb: Don’t underestimate the importance of the words you use in your business. And I’m not just talking about describing your aesthetic. Finding the words that help your ideal clients see themselves as your ideal clients and see you as their ideal designer, it’s possible. It takes effort and expertise and perspective and all these different things.
It’s not like you snap your fingers and it can happen or you just look at somebody else’s website and you copy the words. It’s not like that, but it is very possible and it is invaluable. Like in all the ways that we’ve talked about, so clarity and confidence all the way to time saved and profits made, I really believe it is one of the most valuable investments of time and effort you can make in your business to concentrate on your messaging.
Desi: Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you, Deb, for everything that you’ve shared today. I really appreciate it. And it was just a fun conversation for you and I to have together.
Deb: I know, we could talk forever, unfortunately or fortunately for everyone listening. Sorry, not sorry.
Desi: Yeah. All right. So where can people find you, Deb?
Deb: So you can find me on my website, debmitchellwriting.com. You can find me on Instagram, I’m Design Writer Deb. And yeah, I mean, I am also doing an Instagram live series once a month. And Desi’s going to join me soon where I’m interviewing other like-minded service providers who work with interior designers, which has been kind of a cool thing. So, you know, we’re just having fun over there.
So reach out to me with any questions that you have, and of course if you want to work with me. But I’m always happy to meet and speak with mutuals of Desi. And really any interior designers, I love meeting and hearing about your businesses.
Desi: Wonderful. Yes. And I’m looking forward to that Instagram live we’re going to do in December.
Deb: I know, it took us a while to schedule. We have crazy schedules.
Desi: Yeah, it’s sometime in December. So the best bet is to get on my email newsletter and we’ll put the link for that in the show notes, because I’m sure I’ll promote it that way. And then follow Deb on Instagram. But we all know the algorithm doesn’t always show us everything.
Deb: If you follow me on Instagram, you can also sign up with me there to get notified.
Desi: Oh, yeah, that’s right. I always forget about that feature. Okay, amazing. Well, thank you again, Deb. I’m sure we’ll talk again soon.
Deb: Thank you, Desi.
Desi: And for all of you designers listening in, I’ll be back next week with a brand new episode. And as always, I’m wishing you a beautiful week.
Thanks for joining me for this week’s episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit www.desicreswell.com. And if you’re ready to take what you’ve learned on the podcast to the next level, I would love for you to check out my signature group coaching program, Out of Overwhelm.
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