117. Scaling Through Meaningful Relationships with Blue Pencil Collective
Have you ever wondered what it takes to build a successful interior design business through meaningful relationships? In this episode, I sit down with Kasey Johnson and Regan Nix, the co-founders of Blue Pencil Collective, a full-service design and architecture firm, to explore this very topic.
We dive into their client discovery call process, marketing strategies to attract ideal clients, and the importance of creating time to build and nurture relationships with clients, team members, and project partners. Kasey and Regan also share their experience bringing on a new partner, Christy Davis, to expand the reach of their legacy business.
If you're looking to scale your interior design business through authentic relationship building, this episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable strategies you won't want to miss. Tune in to learn how Blue Pencil Collective has built a thriving firm by prioritizing people and cultivating meaningful connections.
If you're interested in working together one-on-one in the fall or winter, now is the time to put your name on the waitlist for private coaching. Click here to secure your spot!
What You’ll Discover from this Episode:
How to structure a client discovery call process that builds trust and assesses fit.
Why authenticity and transparency are key to attracting your ideal clients.
The importance of nurturing relationships with clients, team members, and industry partners.
How to intentionally create space for relationship building as a busy designer.
Strategies for navigating the dynamics of a business partnership.
The value of bringing on a new partner to expand your business's reach and expertise.
How to build a cohesive team that delivers comprehensive services to clients.
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Full Episode Transcript:
Hey designer, you're listening to episode 117. In this one, I'm interviewing my clients, Kasey Johnson and Regan Nix, the co-founders of Blue Pencil Collective, a full service design and architecture firm. We're gonna be talking all about scaling your interior design business through building meaningful relationships. Those you have with your clients, your team and your project partners. We cover everything from the client discovery call process and marketing to attract your ideal clients, creating time to build and nurture those meaningful relationships, and also bringing on a new partner to expand the reach of their legacy business that they're in the process of building. This is such a valuable conversation and I can't wait for you to listen in.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place. I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Hello, designer, welcome back to the podcast. Today is a special day. It's an interview day and I'm bringing on my past clients, Kasey Johnson and Regan Nix. They are the co-founders of Blue Pencil Collective, a full-service interior design and architecture firm based out of White Bear Lake, Minnesota.
And also joining us today is Christy Davis, their principal architect on staff and a valued team member who's on the path to partnership. So welcome everyone. I'm so glad to have you here.
Kasey: Thanks for having us.
Christy: Thank you. We're happy to be here.
Regan: Thank you.
Desi: All right. So Kasey and Regan, before we dive into the topics we're going to be covering today, could you just share a little bit more on who Blue Pencil Collective is, the types of projects you work on, the clients you serve, and also who you have on your team.
Regan: So, like you said, we're a full-service architecture and interior design firm. We are about 50-50 on commercial versus residential projects and we handle everything from start to finish from conceptual ideas, coordinating engineers, construction documentation, detailed drawings, and then hand it off to the contractor and perform construction administration services. So we're really the eyes and ears on the site for our clients. And then install furniture and handle all the procurement. So when the house or business is ready, our clients can move right in.
Desi: That's amazing. I love that you have a 50-50 split of the residential and commercial. I find that kind of rare. I think firms that I engage with and just firms that I'm aware of tend to have more of an imbalance. Not imbalance in a bad way, but I think there's always that desire to bring in more of one or the other.
And so the fact that you've achieved that breadth of work, I think is really impressive.
Regan: Yeah, it's nice and exciting for us because as the market fluctuates, we're able to keep our doors open and have a very versatile workflow.
Desi: Yeah, absolutely. And a little bit about your team. You are fully a woman-owned and operated business, which I think is fantastic. Kasey, why don't you tell us a little bit more about the team structure, including, of course, Christy, who we've got here with us today.
Kasey: Well, Regan and I are the co-founders and we actually just celebrated our eight-year anniversary.
Desi: Congratulations.
Kasey: And then Christy joined our team last August and we knew from the very beginning that we always wanted an architect as our next partner in the business and we knew we wanted it to be a woman. No hard feelings out there to any of the men, but we wanted someone that could truly jive with us really seamlessly. And with 2 co-founders who have very different personalities, we knew it was gonna be a very specific person.
And we actually hired an HR team to help us search for that third person. And we met Christy and right away we knew that she was meant to be part of our team. So now she's on the path of partnership and already 6 months in and it's going really well.
Desi: Yeah. And I'm definitely going to want to ask some more questions about that, especially as we further explore the idea of relationships in this episode. Can you just share a little bit about who else is on the team as well?
Kasey: Yeah, we actually have, like I mentioned, an HR consultant. We also have an Ops team member, a drafter, designer, who else? Marketing. Marketing director. So we try to find all those really key roles that we didn't necessarily see as key roles in the beginning of our business because we thought we could do it all.
But we wanted to have the experts in place that really bring that area of our business to the level that we need it to be at.
Desi: Yeah, I think that's a smart move. And as I was mentioning, we had the opportunity to work together a few years ago. We worked together both with In Your Partnership in the business, and then KCI had the opportunity to work with you one-on-one as well. And in the time since we've worked together, the business has grown so much. Your brand has really evolved and gotten so strong.
And of course, the ability to serve your clients through the team that you've put together has really expanded as well. I'd love for you to just take a moment and pause and especially with that eight year anniversary that you've just had, what's it like to look back at that time when, you know, we initially worked together and even just the growth you've had over those past few years.
Regan: Oh, wow. It feels like a lifetime, but then again, it feels just like yesterday. And it's just, I don't know. I'm just so proud of us for what we've worked through personally as co-founders and business owners and what we've worked through as business partners. I think you kind of say it best that there's nothing else in this world that tests your fortitude more than parenting and then entrepreneurship.
So I think we've made great strides. We've learned a lot and I feel really good about where we're at.
Desi: Yeah.
Kasey: I think it shows our true like dedication to the business and each other and the support that we get from our family, friends, and other loved ones. And shows that we just have some grit to that we've made it this far.
Desi: Yeah, it is not for the faint of heart running your own business. That is the truth. Yeah. So just to give a little bit of an overview of some of the things that we worked on together just for context that'll lead us into our conversation. We were looking back collectively over some notes and what we worked on.
We did a lot around specific actionable strategies for business goals, including the marketing of the business and operational efficiencies, setting really clear and measurable goals, and working on accountability to those processes. So much like you touched on was enhanced communication, both within your own relationship as partners and also within the team. And then also looking at how you were allocating resources to really increase that productivity and the impact that you could have on the business as a whole. I'd like to also just kind of touch on what were some of the long-range impacts then of working on those specific objectives that we set within the coaching partnership?
Kasey: I think number one, for me at least, is whatever we're doing, it's always asking ourselves if this will be a return on investment and worth our time because our time is the most valuable asset that we have for this business.
Regan: And then also just looking at who is the best person to do this. Is it best for us to use, you know, our skills? Is it the best place for us to be. So I think just being ruthless with who we're giving our time to, what tasks we're doing, and can they be done with someone else? Are they better?
Is it better to hand them off than to do them ourselves? And I think as business owners, that's really hard because we have a very specific way we want everything done. And but you learn that there's experts in each 1 of these areas of your business that can really take it over. And if you get the right people in your team who believe in the business as much as you do, it feels really comfortable and natural to hand those tasks over.
Desi: For sure. And I think a big piece of that is that internal confidence piece in trusting yourselves to know what are the things that are going to produce the ROI, who are the people that I can rely on, trusting yourself and confidently delegating. And that really is the mindset and emotional resilience piece of growing as leaders, which I've certainly seen you both do both within our working relationship and just from the sidelines as I've seen you grow over the years. And another big piece of an evolution that I've seen really is the idea of relationships. Of course, the stronger relationship that has really been the foundation of your growth between the two of you as partners, and then also the relationships that you've developed with the people who used to support you in the business and then also execute on projects.
And that's really one of the first things that I want to dive into today is your strong focus on relationships, both with your clients, your trade partners, and really everyone who touches the project to make it a success. And you really see the value in who you connect with and how you connect with them. And you can even see that as soon as you log on to your website, right? It's like that is a core value you've got front and center. And one of the things that I know you all wanted to bring to the podcast was talking about your client discovery call process.
And that's really that initial personal touch point that is the kickoff for determining if this is the right fit. So if we could just look at back it up a little bit, rewind the tape. How did you know when it was time to say this is something that we really need to reassess and take another look at.
Regan: It was very early in our business. At the beginning, our discovery process looked like this. We would invite any inquiry into our office and then we would set up like a buffet of food and music and candles. And I mean, it was a production. And then we would proceed to give a presentation of basically about a 42 page presentation of what it's like to go through a project like this.
What are they going to get? What are the deliverables? It was very intense and probably extremely overwhelming for clients and not to mention it was not efficient. So speaking of ROI, and then, you know, that's when we started working with you and we knew something had to change. It wasn't sustainable.
It wasn't something that we were gonna be able to keep doing that way. And it wasn't productive for either side. Do you wanna comment?
Kasey: Well, and then we have this really in-depth questionnaire because as we were working on our website, we knew we needed a call to action. So we came up with this questionnaire that I think was like 60 questions and which was like absolutely ridiculous. But our, I guess, theory behind it was that if clients were serious about hiring us, they would take the time to like answer all of these questions. And people did. That was like the crazy part. Some people did.
Regan: There were a few people.
Kasey: Yeah. Yeah. So I can't remember if the questioner was before, after, maybe even during that whole meeting process too of the discovery meeting in our office, but it was a lot.
Desi: Too much for you, too much for the client. There was lots of wasted time and energy being expended on this process that wasn't necessary and wasn't really helping either party along. And now I feel like you have a much more client-centered and efficient and useful process. So can you tell us a little bit more about the specific changes you made to how you assess a client and have that initial call?
Kasey: So we do still have our questionnaire on our website, but now it is only 5 or 6 questions. So it usually gives us a pretty good initial thought of who we're going to meet when we set up our discovery call. So typically if people don't reach out to us directly, they'll fill out the questionnaire and then we hop on a call for that discovery session. We're actually in the process of redoing it a little bit, tweaking it to make it even more personal than it is right now without adding a ton of time. So it's that constant balance and flux of trying to find the right process.
Regan: Yeah, I think we're always gonna be evolving and I think that's what small businesses are, is evolution. And yeah, we have the 5 questions now and we're kind of shifting some of the information we were providing in the proposal to into the discovery call now. And what we realize is we are very client centric, but our discovery calls were still and proposals were still feeling very BPC centric and us centric instead of focusing on what are we doing for them, what are we providing for them. And so now we've evolved even further to be more focused on them and how we can elevate this whole architecture and design process for them. And so the discovery call now is really a glimpse at what they need to know to understand the process.
And then really it's about just getting to know them personally, putting down the questions, putting down the statistics and the logistics of the project and just really talking about who they are as people, as human beings and what makes them passionate and what makes them get out of bed every morning.
Kasey: We want to form that connection from the very first interaction.
Desi: Yeah. And it sounds like this is really an opportunity for you to understand who they are as people and also assess the, I don't know, we could call it the vibe of the client, right? I'm curious, you know, you have some questions on your website. I would suggest, let's figure out what are some of the deal breaker questions. Let's put those on the website so you can filter out the people you don't want to spend time talking to.
And then you get them on your discovery call process. Do you find that is a tight enough filter on the website that once you're talking to them as that personal connection on the discovery call that you genuinely have good fit clients that you're conversing with and have that connection? Or do you find that there's still some disconnects that you discover?
Christy: I think there's always disconnects because you just never know or they never know how to describe maybe what the project is until we ask a lot of questions.
Regan: And I think we found that even if they might say, because 1 of our questions is, are you a DIYer? How involved do you want to be in the process? Basically trying to kind of gauge that. Do you want to be involved in every single step? Do you trust the process and you're you just want to be kept in the loop?
And that's really important to us because we have a very structured process and so if you're wanting to, you know, talk on the phone every day with us and go to showrooms together and all of that, we're probably not going to be the right fit for each other. And so that question is very important. But what we find is they might answer thinking that they're the type that want to be involved in every single step of the way. But then when we start talking to them, it comes out their understanding of that was and our understanding was very different. So it's not always black and white.
Desi: As nothing is, right?
Christy: Yeah. And then just the project description, you know, some people might think that they need this, but then need something totally different when you talk about codes and all that. And budget, that's always another conversation that's a tough conversation, but whether we align with their budget too, like service-wise, and if they have enough money to do the project right now, because that's always a little shocking too, like how much construction actually costs.
Regan: And that's something we talk about on that discovery call. We right away want to make sure that their expectation is in line with, you know, what a project of a certain magnitude actually costs.
Desi: Yeah. And I think that's really another way that you develop the relationship and build the trust is giving them the information they need to make a really informed decision and make sure that it's a good fit for them as well as it being a good fit for you. And that really is in service of everyone. I think so often designers can be wanting to tiptoe around some of those hard conversations. But I think going back to the idea of relationship building, relationships require tough conversations.
They require the truth. And I think that's a real gift that you're able to give clients in helping them understand what the process is, how it's going to work. And I even think that question around the DIY or hands-off is interesting in terms of relationship building and your opportunity to speak to that on the discovery call. Because some of the DIY or like, I want to be more hands-on or go do these things with you, I think can be coming from some hesitation that might still... As much as we try to through the marketing process and through a website to build that trust, establish expertise.
I think there can still be that hesitation of like, but are they going to really handle this well? Do I need to have more on the ball conversations with them? Because like, I don't know, this is a big investment for me. Can I trust it?" And so, I think that probably shifts for some of your clients as well once you get them on the call, I would assume?
Kasey: Yeah, absolutely.
And I think there's also just not a lot of other firms that do what we do and have a very strategic process because we brought that process from corporate, commercial to residential. So since there's not a lot of other agencies that do that, I think having that structured process really gives them that trust that they need in our team and lets them be hands off because that's what it's all about.
Christy: It's the trust.
Regan: It gives them the peace of mind that it's okay to let go and do what they do and let us do what they hired us for.
Christy: And gives them a lot of time back too.
Desi: Yeah, everyone saves the time, which is just wonderful. Yeah, so what other results have you noticed since making these changes to the form on the website and your discovery call process?
Kasey: I think it's also helping us attract the right clients too, which is maybe another answer to your question about the questionnaire is we don't have a whole lot of like nose to it because we are attracting the right clients and we're about to, you know, evolve again with our website and bring it up a notch higher. But we typically attract those really eclectic, very like driven clients because our website is the exact same way.
Regan: Yeah, clients definitely tend to be eclectic and a very personable family is their core. So it's really interesting the when you look from client to client, the commonalities between all of them. They're all very similar people. So it's funny how you use your business when it becomes really clear that you attract these same people over and over again, just as you would in your personal life. Yeah.
Kasey: And they're experts in their field. So I think that's where that respect and trust comes back to us.
Desi: Yeah. And I think that's really been the cohesive brand that you're putting out is that of an expert. And it really comes through, I think, in the way that you talk about your services, the way you contribute to the community, the way the process is run, all of those things. And I think going back to the trust, that's absolutely there. And I'm sure that it's helping with conversion too, in terms of once you actually talk to the clients and the discovery call, the majority are turning into paying clients and ideal clients, which is exactly what you want.
So I know some designers have hesitation around getting more structured with their intake forms, having that established kind of initial screening, having the discovery call be set in a certain way. You know, if they have any hesitations about testing the waters of making some changes to how they approach the discovery call process, what advice would you have for them?
Regan: I would say, what's your takeaway? What do you want their takeaway to be? And what do you want your takeaway to be from the conversation outside of a signed deal? Like, how do you want them to feel? How do you want to feel when you walk away from it?
And so what are the, what needs to happen in order for you to get there and then structure that process around that.
Christy: I think it's like a mutual thing too because you want your client to walk away like they were going to want to hire somebody that they trust and like that they want to work with for years. And so that's a really big deal too. And do we want to work with them for years? And do they want to work with us for years? Cause it's going to be a relationship that is going to be very important.
And we're taking, I mean, it's a lot to entrust us to.
Kasey: I think it goes back to the value of time too. Because even though like, once we got our questionnaire right, we saw the number of inquiries maybe going down but then the quality of the inquiries was much higher. So at the end of the day, it's saving you time and finding your right client.
Regan: Yeah, so I think that first step is just about authenticity and not being afraid to say, because in the long run, you're gonna be better off saying, the project that you're conveying to me is, you know, a million dollars. It's not 300, 000, you know, and here's a referral. Oftentimes we'll say what you've described to me sounds like a perfect match for this company, firm designer. And so we'll give her a referral and we'll say, you know, should anything change, you know, we're here for you. You don't let us know how we can help.
And oftentimes later in life, like that person might come back as a client when they do have that criteria that aligns best with your business.
Desi: And there you have it, the seeds of relationships yet again.
Regan: Authenticity, honesty.
Christy: And not just take any project and yeah, being transparent with everybody.
Desi: And I think it's interesting to think about too of like, Christy, what you were saying about, do we want to work with them for years to come? Do they want to work with us for years to come? And thinking about also what Regan was saying about how the relationship feels and fast forwarding to the end of a successfully completed project, looking at what does that relationship look like? What does it feel like? How do those interactions take place?
And in using that as a vision of where you want the project to end up and being able to use that almost as a way to work backwards then and say, if that's where the project ends up, is this the relationship we have? How did it start? What did those initial interactions look like? How did we speak to each other? What types of information did we ask for?
What did we share about ourselves personally? And could be something that could be an interesting exercise for designers to go through, right? Because the way you want the relationship to end up could be very different from... I mean, of course, everyone wants a happy client and a nice project at the end. But the tone or the formality or the informality of a relationship can really vary depending on the leader of the business.
And I think it could be something interesting for everyone listening to explore. Now we've talked a lot about relationships and beginning those relationships through the discovery call process. So now what I want to talk about is relationships more on the whole, because building meaningful business relationships is definitely a core tenant in your business. And I'd love for you to speak to that a little bit more. Just telling me and the listeners, what do you mean by building meaningful relationships and really why it is so important to your success as a design firm?
Regan: For us, I think we do see our clients as family. We truly do. And we are with them, you know, like Christy said, for years on end. I mean, most of our projects, residential, I should say, you know, are anywhere from 2 to 3 years or longer even. And then our commercial projects, you know, are anywhere from 6 months to a year.
So you're spending a lot of time with these people. So just building the formality of trust and experience is the best foundation. But when we end a project, we always say we want to be going on family vacations together. And a perfect example of that is a project we just finished with a client and we were their first guests. And we went down to Sioux Falls and put on all our PJs and sat in their new living room with them and drank wine and talked about all the ups and downs of the project and just how that relationship had grew so strong outside of the project itself.
And we see ourselves, you know, being lifelong friends with these clients. And that's something that we really pride ourselves on because it wasn't just this one client, pretty much all our clients, we end with that type of a relationship. And that's ultimately what drives us every day.
Kasey: And it's also the relationships with, you know, others in the industry, our industry partners. There's a much bigger extension to the team than just us. It's everybody that's touching the project, which is a lot of people in the end. So having that foundation of trust and respect with them too is really important in the success of the project.
Regan: It's a small industry. And so, you know, having those great connections, like we can support each other and that's invaluable. Those networking connections and those partners are just so imperative.
Christy: Especially with like contractors, like working together and that's really important.
Kasey: You have to be able to problem solve together and look at each other as a team.
Christy: Yeah. Nothing is weather either. It's always... There's always something that happens in the field, no matter how simple the project might seem.
Desi: Absolutely. I think we can all just have a collective, yes, That is so true. Things are going to go wrong. And so having that strong relationship and seeing each other as valuable project partners and knowing that each person brings something really strong to the table is so important. One of the things I'm curious about is, do you see building relationships as part of your business development process or your marketing as well?
I know we've talked a lot about getting the clients on boarded and then creating a successful project. But I'm curious if you really think about relationship building in terms of marketing or how you continue to grow the brand?
Kasey: Absolutely. I think it's completely integral and they all kind of intersect and intertwine in all sorts of ways. Both business, the people, everything.
Desi: Mm-hmm.
Christy: Yeah, it can be, you know, reps or, you know, manufacturers, builders, like basically anybody, engineers, it goes on and on with how many people we try to stay connected with and build those relationships with because you never know where projects might come from and just like help along the way. If you have questions, you can reach out to somebody and just ask a quick question and have them as like an alternate resource if you don't know the answer to something for a client.
Regan: So and I also think, you know, being women, something that I love about being a woman and love and other women is the nurturing. So we're in a league, I think, made to nurture one another and to nurture relationships, to nurture anyone that comes into our circle. That's just who we are as human beings and as women especially. And so I think it's just in our genes that when we connect with someone, it's like we want to nurture that right away. We want to like, you know, really be fulfilled by that relationship and we want the relationship itself to be fulfilling.
And so I think it's just a very authentic way of who we are and then just making a business out of it.
Desi: Yeah, I think that's so true. When I think about some of the most fulfilling moments of my own business, it's working with the clients, it's working with collaborations for my peers who support the same clientele. It's those conversations and the relationships and the intimacy of getting to know one another and seeing each other's growth and also seeing you overcome obstacles. And that is so deeply fulfilling. And I also think it's interesting, though, I would say a lot of people would say that's true, right?
Especially in a woman-centered field such as interior design, we do value relationships. And I also think it can be difficult for busy designers to make the time to build those relationships. I think we all think, yes, it's important and it's something I want and they're valuable to the business, they're valuable to the client and it can be hard to say I'm gonna take time to do this. So I'd love to know what you have to say about that, how you intentionally create space for relationship building and how it is just a natural part of your cadence.
Regan: I think it's finding the people who are aligned with us and then focusing on those. Not everybody's gonna be our vibe. They're not gonna be in our tribe. And so it's finding those that support us as much as we want to support them and who really believe in us, and then really just focusing and putting our time into those. And then the ones that, you know, maybe just aren't aligned with us and our values and the way our personalities are, it can be anything.
You know, we're not spending as much time in that area or with those people. So it's just being really clear about who you're going to nurture and who you feel comfortable with. And, you know, that's something that takes a while too, because you want everybody to like you and you want to go to everything. Yeah. But if you can be really succinct about, I love being in the presence of this builder, I love being in the presence of this client or this team.
And so then you just really focus on that and put your efforts and energy there.
Christy: And we're trying to figure that out too, like how are we gonna nurture people and how to make it like simple and fun and getting to know them on a deeper level and not just talking about business all the time.
Kasey: And it needs to be exciting too. Yeah. Something everybody wants to do together.
Regan: Yeah. Yeah. I think one thing we have realized too is like we really like more of those one-on-ones or group activities together versus going to large events. Not that those aren't fun or valuable, but we're finding a deeper connection when we can connect on a personal, more of a personal setting and, you know, and there's different ways of doing it. Like maybe you spend all day, it's all how you organize your calendars too.
Like maybe Tuesdays are networking days. So those are the days you're going to go out and you're going to, you're going to do five back-to-back coffee meetings or whatever it is with your people and you're gonna do it once a month or once a quarter. And so you can kind of just move right through it and you're making sure that you're connecting with those people that are in your circle.
Desi: Yeah, I think that specificity around the types of relationships you want to build and how you want to build them, how much time you have to dedicate to building those relationships, it's all really supportive. Because I think sometimes we can operate in silos of our business. And of course, you have a larger team at this point. But I think when you're first starting out or if you're having remote employees, it can feel like you, yourself and I. And you think, Well, I want to go build these relationships.
I wish I had a contractor I could call on for this particular type of project or whatever it is. And without putting some structure around it, supportive structure, not like constrictive, but it could feel really daunting and like something you have to do all the time or you think you have to do... You have to go to the huge industry events. That's the only way to build these relationships when really you want to make those one-on-one connections. And so I think that's so much about knowing yourself and trusting yourself again as the leader of the business is to say, this is the way I like to build relationships.
There are other people out there who want to build relationships with me in this way. And I'm sorry, Kasey, you said to like something that you find fun that you want to do. I think so often we think we have to build relationships in a certain way and we have it be this prescriptive approach that's like something you have no interest in doing. You're like, I don't want to go to those things, but I have to. So then of course, we never make the time and don't actually build those relationships.
I think those are all really insightful tips you just gave. So we also talked a little bit there about team. So I want to transition to team a little bit and your partnership in general. So of course, the relationship between the two of you and now moving into the three of you. So important.
And I know during our coaching, we really worked on enhancing that communication and understanding whose strengths were best suited to different roles in the business. How do you continue to let's start with nurture the relationship that exists between you Regan and you Kasey? And then we'll talk about bringing Christy into the fold as well.
Kasey: I think part of it is like our weekly check-ins. We are pretty adamant on always touching base on a weekly basis, both personally and professionally. So I think having that one-on-one time together really helps keep us on the same page and the business on the same page.
Regan: And I think we've just learned in the 8 years that we've been together, how to work together and when one of us might need space, when one of us might need, you know, extra time or whatever it is, you know, it is like a marriage or harder, maybe even than a marriage. But so we have to go through all of those things that you do in a marriage, you know, and we I think, just really cognizant of what the other person is going through and what they're feeling, what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are, and then being able to step in or step back to allow those to shine.
Desi: One of the things that I'm curious, and I bet other people would be curious about too, is just you two are friends. So how do you balance that? Do you have ways that you draw lines between work and personal that support you in the business? Or how do you manage that?
Kasey: It's definitely tricky. But when we're in the office, it's like work mode on. Obviously, we're still very respectful, but we try to keep it as separate as possible between business and personal.
Regan: Yeah. And I think, again, it's an evolution and it's hard. It's a roller coaster, you know, and learning how to disagree with each other on things and learning how to celebrate too. But I think when you come into work, how, and this is a discussion we had not too long ago, when we're at work, I'm going to respond to you or you're going to respond to me as we're co-working partners as a business mindset. That can be very different than how I would respond to you on the outside as your friend.
So that's the hardest thing is like, as your business partner, this is how I'm going to approach you because right now I'm in business mode and what's most important to me at this moment and I'm business mode is the business. If you ask me the same question or we talk about the same topic outside of work, I'm gonna give you probably a 180 degree different response. So I think that's the biggest thing too. Like Kasey said, drawing that line, we're business here and we're friends, you know, out there. I mean, both of them crossover, but it's just kind of trying to keep that mentality.
Desi: Yeah, I think very much a mindset. And I think a little bit too of maybe training yourself to not read into certain tones or formality of speech or shortness even of speech, right? That maybe as a friend or in a friendship with like on a text thread or something, it's going to be more playful. It's going to be maybe a little quipier. And I think often just like being relational beings, we want to dissect and assign meaning to every interaction that we have.
And I'm sure that's an ongoing process of learning how to navigate those communication ways between the two of you as well.
Kasey: Yeah, and I think we've both just also evolved as people so much with the evolution of the business and gone through different seasons together and differently and it's just we've learned a lot about ourselves and the other person and I think just like any relationship that's being supportive to each other both inside and outside of the office.
Regan: Yeah, and I think anyone who knows us knows we're complete opposites. I mean we are on opposite sides of the any spectrum you put out there that so you know it's learning to respect how each other operates and respecting those differences because they're in the end. They're amazing. The differences really balance each other out.
Desi: Yeah, Absolutely. So yeah, I think that's interesting to talk about with Christy now here entering the picture. If we've got Kasey on one end of the spectrum and Regan on the other, where does Christy fall and how did you consider where on that line you wanted that third partner to be.
Regan: I don't know if we knew. We didn't know that this third partner really existed. So yeah, I don't know if we had this vision, but she, as she stands today, is perfectly in the middle of us. She's a little bit Kasey, a little bit me, and a lot Christy.
Desi: I love it. It's interesting. You've even placed her in the middle. We're recording this for audio but I'm here on Zoom with you. You've even placed her in the middle of you too.
So that's very interesting. So Christy, tell us a little bit about what do you think attracted you to Blue Pencil Collective? Or how did you see this as a relational fit in the business?
Christy: I think at first, it was like the partnership part and then the women-owned. I didn't know them before I started. So, but the first day that I came in, it was like, we all were perfect together. And I could kind of feel that balance and like how I would be in between them a little bit, but not until I started. Then it was like very clear that they were complete opposites.
But it's in a good way because you need the balance and it was hard to navigate right away because I'm like, okay, who do I agree with or disagree with or do how do I say my own real opinion right now? Or when can I voice my opinion? So it's just trying to figure out that too. But now I think I have it down. I feel more comfortable and confident about it.
And nobody's going to be offended. That is just all of us just saying our opinion and it's fine.
Desi: And how do you think the partnership relationship going from two to three is going to shift how you operate the business? Do you see that making any huge changes in how you approach the running of the business? Or do you see the partnership in providing different assets and a different component?
Kasey: I feel like we've always looked at it as a positive to have another person having input in the business. We value opinions and we know that Christy is gonna provide like her real thoughts on every situation. So I think we're really excited for that and looking forward to like how much she contributes.
Regan: And I think it will operate the same. And I think that's what this year leading up to the partnership was really built out for was understanding how she gradually starts to fit in and where she fits in. And ultimately we brought her on to spearhead our commercial side of the business. And so it's pretty clear cut. I mean, we all, you know, have our hands and everything as a small business, but really we brought her on to spearhead that commercial side of BPC.
So that'll kind of be the biggest change. But other than that, you know, besides just standard evolution of better processes, more efficiency and all of that. And then just having another expert in our office, on our team here with us, just validates what we do in our work all the more.
Kasey: We want everything about BPC to be scalable. So ultimately, nothing should really change as far as operations of it. It's just getting a little bit bigger for the better.
Desi: Yeah. Do you see your individual roles as founding partners shifting with the addition of a new partner? Do you see the way that even just you yourself in the business shifting at all?
Regan: Yeah, I think the way we can allocate different parts of the business, We can obviously take some off our shoulders and allocate it to Christy now. And so it's definitely going to provide a little bit more breathing room for Kasey and I.
Desi: Yeah. And I imagine the growth will be there then too of being able to handle more projects, bigger projects. And I'm curious, since she's going to be spearheading commercial, how does that shift your involvement in commercial projects? Still the same? Or do you see that shifting too?
Regan: Probably be a lot more hands off, chiming in and everything, but more hands off. The way we've kind of separated the business now is Kasey spearheading residential and residential design and that aspect. And then Christy is commercial design. And then my specialty is really in construction documents and construction administration. So at a really high level, that's how we've divided it.
But you know, like I said before, we all have our hands kind of a little bit in everything.
Desi: And I think you've given just some insight to into how comprehensive your team has become. I think it'd be interesting for any listeners to just go check out your website. Of course, the website is just fun. I love how you've got the video on there. And I know you said you've got some changes maybe underway too.
So that'll be fun to check out. But the breadth of the services that you're able to offer within the scope of your team is just really cohesive and such an asset to any client who wants to work with you. And I think could be interesting for others to see.
Regan: Yeah. And I think we all came from like the large architecture, global architecture and interior design firms. And in those firms at that scale, you typically have a team of, you know, anywhere from 5 to 10, depending on how big the project is. And everybody's working together on that project. And you'll have project managers, architects, interior designers, and you're not really segregated into this designer is going to do this.
The architect's going to do this. You're all working cohesively on all aspects of that design of that project. And so we really took that whole process and that's, we copied it almost verbatim, but it's just in a more, so the delivery is the same, it's just in a more personal setting. So that's how we're able to do all of it in a small business is because that's how we were taught. That's what we know. And for us, it's comfort.
Christy: And people might not really realize that when they're like working with a large firm, that you have like a small team and we're just like that small team just by ourselves instead of being part of a large firm.
Desi: Such an incredible asset. So when we began this, we went with the theme of relationships. And we've talked about the relationship with the client discovery process from the very get go of the client journey. We've talked about building out your team and the relationships, building those relationships with trade partners and your clients. Is there anything that you for sure wanted to bring to this conversation today that we haven't touched on yet?
Regan: I think we would just say to anyone that's opening a business or is in the thick of a business to what the biggest thing I've learned through business is everything you touch and do should be in the mindset of, could I sell this business and is the scalable? So I guess it depends on what you want your business to do. But if you're building a business that you want to be a legacy and live on past your involvement, those are questions that we ask ourselves whenever we're doing anything. Is it scalable? Is it sellable? Does it bring value?
Desi: Yeah, those are great questions.
Kasey: And I think for me, one of the biggest learning lessons, and I've said this in other interviews too, is just being fearless. Because I am such like a type A personality, I think I was so afraid of failure that it would hold me back. So I think you know just letting go of that and kind of like your website said to you, Desi is like take a gamble on yourself and you just have to go for it. Not think about it so much.
Desi: Yeah, because you're totally smart, you're capable and you'll figure it out. Christy, did you have anything you wanted to add?
Christy: I think we all say like you shouldn't be comfortable. So I think that's a good one to just learning and growing isn't always going to be comfortable. And you should just keep doing that because it's only going to get you somewhere else and bring you to something bigger. You're not in your comfort zone.
Desi: Absolutely. 100% agree with that one. All right. And just as we wrap up here, I'd like to ask if you have anything you'd like to share. I like to give people some insight into what it's like to work with me.
So is there anything for a designer that might be listening and they're like, oh, what's it like to work with Desi that you'd be up for sharing? The toughest hard hitting question of the interview.
Regan: My favorite thing, well I'll go. My favorite thing that I think is, I mean, I don't know if you know anyone else that does what you do, but you're the only one that I've ever known that really combines that sort of therapeutic aspect, you know, the psychology and mental wellbeing with the business structure. That is something I haven't seen before. And they're so interrelated, the amount of therapy that I think, there should be a therapist on every small business, any business, there should be a therapist required to be on staff. And so I don't know how much people realize that and they start working with you.
And a lot of the things that seem like they were business issues or concerns or good things or bad might have been coming from a personal place. And when you can conquer that, the business purchase falls into place. So I think you having not only the interior design background, but then incorporating it with the psychology and business mind is, I think it's just super unique.
Kasey: And you genuinely like care about the people you work with and their businesses. I think that was really apparent from the very beginning.
Desi: Well, thank you. That is true. I appreciate that so much. And it really has been a joy to watch your evolution. And I'd love for you just to share kind of what are you thinking for 2025? What's next?
Regan: Yeah, we're definitely going to, you know, up our game, bring our website to another level, and then just really change our whole marketing approach.
Desi: Say more about that. If you're willing.
Regan: I think it just it goes right along with what we were saying about finding your people and then focusing on them and and then also just really understanding our lead nurturing process and what that looks like and being just really succinct with our time. We're getting much, much better at that and realizing time is money more and more every day. So just understanding where our time is and then focusing our marketing efforts on just strengthening the relationships we believe in this year.
Desi: It's so interesting, right? Because when we think about where you were when we first started working together, right? Like some of those themes were there. It's just as you continue to evolve the business, grow the business, evolve as the business owner, you just continue to deepen those lessons and become more effective and step into that high-level leadership, which I think is rewarding. And also, it takes real dedication and commitment to continue to refine.
I think, especially as you become that more mature CEO and that mature business, that is the work is the refinement.
Kasey: And we're also on the back end working on so many things internally, just to make us more streamlined and efficient and never forgetting about the operations side of everything too because really what keeps our doors open.
Desi: Yeah. All right. Well, where can people find you? Tell us the best places to check you out. I know I've mentioned the website, but maybe you can give the URL and anywhere else you would recommend people look you up or even reach out if they want to say hi or share a takeaway from today?
Kasey: Well, our website is bluepencilcollective.com. We're also on Instagram and Facebook, LinkedIn, or you can reach out to us directly via email too. It's hello at bluepencilcollective.com.
Regan: And our door's always also open if you just want to go old school and stop and say hi.
Desi: Well thank you all for joining me. It was really great to recap some lessons and just catch up a little bit. For everyone listening, I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. And in that episode, I'm going to be talking about a really important topic for this time of year, which is giving yourself enough chances to succeed. We're going to be hitting that mid-January slump, and that's when goals tend to go off track.
So I don't want that to happen for any of you. So make sure you subscribe to the show. And if you enjoyed this interview, make sure to share it with a designer or architect you know, because I know that it would be helpful. Until next Wednesday, I am wishing you a beautiful week and I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks for joining me for this week’s episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit www.desicreswell.com. And if you’re ready to take what you’ve learned on the podcast to the next level, I would love for you to check out my signature group coaching program, Out of Overwhelm.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place. I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Hello, designer, welcome back to the podcast. Today is a special day. It's an interview day and I'm bringing on my past clients, Kasey Johnson and Regan Nix. They are the co-founders of Blue Pencil Collective, a full-service interior design and architecture firm based out of White Bear Lake, Minnesota.
And also joining us today is Christy Davis, their principal architect on staff and a valued team member who's on the path to partnership. So welcome everyone. I'm so glad to have you here.
Kasey: Thanks for having us.
Christy: Thank you. We're happy to be here.
Regan: Thank you.
Desi: All right. So Kasey and Regan, before we dive into the topics we're going to be covering today, could you just share a little bit more on who Blue Pencil Collective is, the types of projects you work on, the clients you serve, and also who you have on your team.
Regan: So, like you said, we're a full-service architecture and interior design firm. We are about 50-50 on commercial versus residential projects and we handle everything from start to finish from conceptual ideas, coordinating engineers, construction documentation, detailed drawings, and then hand it off to the contractor and perform construction administration services. So we're really the eyes and ears on the site for our clients. And then install furniture and handle all the procurement. So when the house or business is ready, our clients can move right in.
Desi: That's amazing. I love that you have a 50-50 split of the residential and commercial. I find that kind of rare. I think firms that I engage with and just firms that I'm aware of tend to have more of an imbalance. Not imbalance in a bad way, but I think there's always that desire to bring in more of one or the other.
And so the fact that you've achieved that breadth of work, I think is really impressive.
Regan: Yeah, it's nice and exciting for us because as the market fluctuates, we're able to keep our doors open and have a very versatile workflow.
Desi: Yeah, absolutely. And a little bit about your team. You are fully a woman-owned and operated business, which I think is fantastic. Kasey, why don't you tell us a little bit more about the team structure, including, of course, Christy, who we've got here with us today.
Kasey: Well, Regan and I are the co-founders and we actually just celebrated our eight-year anniversary.
Desi: Congratulations.
Kasey: And then Christy joined our team last August and we knew from the very beginning that we always wanted an architect as our next partner in the business and we knew we wanted it to be a woman. No hard feelings out there to any of the men, but we wanted someone that could truly jive with us really seamlessly. And with 2 co-founders who have very different personalities, we knew it was gonna be a very specific person.
And we actually hired an HR team to help us search for that third person. And we met Christy and right away we knew that she was meant to be part of our team. So now she's on the path of partnership and already 6 months in and it's going really well.
Desi: Yeah. And I'm definitely going to want to ask some more questions about that, especially as we further explore the idea of relationships in this episode. Can you just share a little bit about who else is on the team as well?
Kasey: Yeah, we actually have, like I mentioned, an HR consultant. We also have an Ops team member, a drafter, designer, who else? Marketing. Marketing director. So we try to find all those really key roles that we didn't necessarily see as key roles in the beginning of our business because we thought we could do it all.
But we wanted to have the experts in place that really bring that area of our business to the level that we need it to be at.
Desi: Yeah, I think that's a smart move. And as I was mentioning, we had the opportunity to work together a few years ago. We worked together both with In Your Partnership in the business, and then KCI had the opportunity to work with you one-on-one as well. And in the time since we've worked together, the business has grown so much. Your brand has really evolved and gotten so strong.
And of course, the ability to serve your clients through the team that you've put together has really expanded as well. I'd love for you to just take a moment and pause and especially with that eight year anniversary that you've just had, what's it like to look back at that time when, you know, we initially worked together and even just the growth you've had over those past few years.
Regan: Oh, wow. It feels like a lifetime, but then again, it feels just like yesterday. And it's just, I don't know. I'm just so proud of us for what we've worked through personally as co-founders and business owners and what we've worked through as business partners. I think you kind of say it best that there's nothing else in this world that tests your fortitude more than parenting and then entrepreneurship.
So I think we've made great strides. We've learned a lot and I feel really good about where we're at.
Desi: Yeah.
Kasey: I think it shows our true like dedication to the business and each other and the support that we get from our family, friends, and other loved ones. And shows that we just have some grit to that we've made it this far.
Desi: Yeah, it is not for the faint of heart running your own business. That is the truth. Yeah. So just to give a little bit of an overview of some of the things that we worked on together just for context that'll lead us into our conversation. We were looking back collectively over some notes and what we worked on.
We did a lot around specific actionable strategies for business goals, including the marketing of the business and operational efficiencies, setting really clear and measurable goals, and working on accountability to those processes. So much like you touched on was enhanced communication, both within your own relationship as partners and also within the team. And then also looking at how you were allocating resources to really increase that productivity and the impact that you could have on the business as a whole. I'd like to also just kind of touch on what were some of the long-range impacts then of working on those specific objectives that we set within the coaching partnership?
Kasey: I think number one, for me at least, is whatever we're doing, it's always asking ourselves if this will be a return on investment and worth our time because our time is the most valuable asset that we have for this business.
Regan: And then also just looking at who is the best person to do this. Is it best for us to use, you know, our skills? Is it the best place for us to be. So I think just being ruthless with who we're giving our time to, what tasks we're doing, and can they be done with someone else? Are they better?
Is it better to hand them off than to do them ourselves? And I think as business owners, that's really hard because we have a very specific way we want everything done. And but you learn that there's experts in each 1 of these areas of your business that can really take it over. And if you get the right people in your team who believe in the business as much as you do, it feels really comfortable and natural to hand those tasks over.
Desi: For sure. And I think a big piece of that is that internal confidence piece in trusting yourselves to know what are the things that are going to produce the ROI, who are the people that I can rely on, trusting yourself and confidently delegating. And that really is the mindset and emotional resilience piece of growing as leaders, which I've certainly seen you both do both within our working relationship and just from the sidelines as I've seen you grow over the years. And another big piece of an evolution that I've seen really is the idea of relationships. Of course, the stronger relationship that has really been the foundation of your growth between the two of you as partners, and then also the relationships that you've developed with the people who used to support you in the business and then also execute on projects.
And that's really one of the first things that I want to dive into today is your strong focus on relationships, both with your clients, your trade partners, and really everyone who touches the project to make it a success. And you really see the value in who you connect with and how you connect with them. And you can even see that as soon as you log on to your website, right? It's like that is a core value you've got front and center. And one of the things that I know you all wanted to bring to the podcast was talking about your client discovery call process.
And that's really that initial personal touch point that is the kickoff for determining if this is the right fit. So if we could just look at back it up a little bit, rewind the tape. How did you know when it was time to say this is something that we really need to reassess and take another look at.
Regan: It was very early in our business. At the beginning, our discovery process looked like this. We would invite any inquiry into our office and then we would set up like a buffet of food and music and candles. And I mean, it was a production. And then we would proceed to give a presentation of basically about a 42 page presentation of what it's like to go through a project like this.
What are they going to get? What are the deliverables? It was very intense and probably extremely overwhelming for clients and not to mention it was not efficient. So speaking of ROI, and then, you know, that's when we started working with you and we knew something had to change. It wasn't sustainable.
It wasn't something that we were gonna be able to keep doing that way. And it wasn't productive for either side. Do you wanna comment?
Kasey: Well, and then we have this really in-depth questionnaire because as we were working on our website, we knew we needed a call to action. So we came up with this questionnaire that I think was like 60 questions and which was like absolutely ridiculous. But our, I guess, theory behind it was that if clients were serious about hiring us, they would take the time to like answer all of these questions. And people did. That was like the crazy part. Some people did.
Regan: There were a few people.
Kasey: Yeah. Yeah. So I can't remember if the questioner was before, after, maybe even during that whole meeting process too of the discovery meeting in our office, but it was a lot.
Desi: Too much for you, too much for the client. There was lots of wasted time and energy being expended on this process that wasn't necessary and wasn't really helping either party along. And now I feel like you have a much more client-centered and efficient and useful process. So can you tell us a little bit more about the specific changes you made to how you assess a client and have that initial call?
Kasey: So we do still have our questionnaire on our website, but now it is only 5 or 6 questions. So it usually gives us a pretty good initial thought of who we're going to meet when we set up our discovery call. So typically if people don't reach out to us directly, they'll fill out the questionnaire and then we hop on a call for that discovery session. We're actually in the process of redoing it a little bit, tweaking it to make it even more personal than it is right now without adding a ton of time. So it's that constant balance and flux of trying to find the right process.
Regan: Yeah, I think we're always gonna be evolving and I think that's what small businesses are, is evolution. And yeah, we have the 5 questions now and we're kind of shifting some of the information we were providing in the proposal to into the discovery call now. And what we realize is we are very client centric, but our discovery calls were still and proposals were still feeling very BPC centric and us centric instead of focusing on what are we doing for them, what are we providing for them. And so now we've evolved even further to be more focused on them and how we can elevate this whole architecture and design process for them. And so the discovery call now is really a glimpse at what they need to know to understand the process.
And then really it's about just getting to know them personally, putting down the questions, putting down the statistics and the logistics of the project and just really talking about who they are as people, as human beings and what makes them passionate and what makes them get out of bed every morning.
Kasey: We want to form that connection from the very first interaction.
Desi: Yeah. And it sounds like this is really an opportunity for you to understand who they are as people and also assess the, I don't know, we could call it the vibe of the client, right? I'm curious, you know, you have some questions on your website. I would suggest, let's figure out what are some of the deal breaker questions. Let's put those on the website so you can filter out the people you don't want to spend time talking to.
And then you get them on your discovery call process. Do you find that is a tight enough filter on the website that once you're talking to them as that personal connection on the discovery call that you genuinely have good fit clients that you're conversing with and have that connection? Or do you find that there's still some disconnects that you discover?
Christy: I think there's always disconnects because you just never know or they never know how to describe maybe what the project is until we ask a lot of questions.
Regan: And I think we found that even if they might say, because 1 of our questions is, are you a DIYer? How involved do you want to be in the process? Basically trying to kind of gauge that. Do you want to be involved in every single step? Do you trust the process and you're you just want to be kept in the loop?
And that's really important to us because we have a very structured process and so if you're wanting to, you know, talk on the phone every day with us and go to showrooms together and all of that, we're probably not going to be the right fit for each other. And so that question is very important. But what we find is they might answer thinking that they're the type that want to be involved in every single step of the way. But then when we start talking to them, it comes out their understanding of that was and our understanding was very different. So it's not always black and white.
Desi: As nothing is, right?
Christy: Yeah. And then just the project description, you know, some people might think that they need this, but then need something totally different when you talk about codes and all that. And budget, that's always another conversation that's a tough conversation, but whether we align with their budget too, like service-wise, and if they have enough money to do the project right now, because that's always a little shocking too, like how much construction actually costs.
Regan: And that's something we talk about on that discovery call. We right away want to make sure that their expectation is in line with, you know, what a project of a certain magnitude actually costs.
Desi: Yeah. And I think that's really another way that you develop the relationship and build the trust is giving them the information they need to make a really informed decision and make sure that it's a good fit for them as well as it being a good fit for you. And that really is in service of everyone. I think so often designers can be wanting to tiptoe around some of those hard conversations. But I think going back to the idea of relationship building, relationships require tough conversations.
They require the truth. And I think that's a real gift that you're able to give clients in helping them understand what the process is, how it's going to work. And I even think that question around the DIY or hands-off is interesting in terms of relationship building and your opportunity to speak to that on the discovery call. Because some of the DIY or like, I want to be more hands-on or go do these things with you, I think can be coming from some hesitation that might still... As much as we try to through the marketing process and through a website to build that trust, establish expertise.
I think there can still be that hesitation of like, but are they going to really handle this well? Do I need to have more on the ball conversations with them? Because like, I don't know, this is a big investment for me. Can I trust it?" And so, I think that probably shifts for some of your clients as well once you get them on the call, I would assume?
Kasey: Yeah, absolutely.
And I think there's also just not a lot of other firms that do what we do and have a very strategic process because we brought that process from corporate, commercial to residential. So since there's not a lot of other agencies that do that, I think having that structured process really gives them that trust that they need in our team and lets them be hands off because that's what it's all about.
Christy: It's the trust.
Regan: It gives them the peace of mind that it's okay to let go and do what they do and let us do what they hired us for.
Christy: And gives them a lot of time back too.
Desi: Yeah, everyone saves the time, which is just wonderful. Yeah, so what other results have you noticed since making these changes to the form on the website and your discovery call process?
Kasey: I think it's also helping us attract the right clients too, which is maybe another answer to your question about the questionnaire is we don't have a whole lot of like nose to it because we are attracting the right clients and we're about to, you know, evolve again with our website and bring it up a notch higher. But we typically attract those really eclectic, very like driven clients because our website is the exact same way.
Regan: Yeah, clients definitely tend to be eclectic and a very personable family is their core. So it's really interesting the when you look from client to client, the commonalities between all of them. They're all very similar people. So it's funny how you use your business when it becomes really clear that you attract these same people over and over again, just as you would in your personal life. Yeah.
Kasey: And they're experts in their field. So I think that's where that respect and trust comes back to us.
Desi: Yeah. And I think that's really been the cohesive brand that you're putting out is that of an expert. And it really comes through, I think, in the way that you talk about your services, the way you contribute to the community, the way the process is run, all of those things. And I think going back to the trust, that's absolutely there. And I'm sure that it's helping with conversion too, in terms of once you actually talk to the clients and the discovery call, the majority are turning into paying clients and ideal clients, which is exactly what you want.
So I know some designers have hesitation around getting more structured with their intake forms, having that established kind of initial screening, having the discovery call be set in a certain way. You know, if they have any hesitations about testing the waters of making some changes to how they approach the discovery call process, what advice would you have for them?
Regan: I would say, what's your takeaway? What do you want their takeaway to be? And what do you want your takeaway to be from the conversation outside of a signed deal? Like, how do you want them to feel? How do you want to feel when you walk away from it?
And so what are the, what needs to happen in order for you to get there and then structure that process around that.
Christy: I think it's like a mutual thing too because you want your client to walk away like they were going to want to hire somebody that they trust and like that they want to work with for years. And so that's a really big deal too. And do we want to work with them for years? And do they want to work with us for years? Cause it's going to be a relationship that is going to be very important.
And we're taking, I mean, it's a lot to entrust us to.
Kasey: I think it goes back to the value of time too. Because even though like, once we got our questionnaire right, we saw the number of inquiries maybe going down but then the quality of the inquiries was much higher. So at the end of the day, it's saving you time and finding your right client.
Regan: Yeah, so I think that first step is just about authenticity and not being afraid to say, because in the long run, you're gonna be better off saying, the project that you're conveying to me is, you know, a million dollars. It's not 300, 000, you know, and here's a referral. Oftentimes we'll say what you've described to me sounds like a perfect match for this company, firm designer. And so we'll give her a referral and we'll say, you know, should anything change, you know, we're here for you. You don't let us know how we can help.
And oftentimes later in life, like that person might come back as a client when they do have that criteria that aligns best with your business.
Desi: And there you have it, the seeds of relationships yet again.
Regan: Authenticity, honesty.
Christy: And not just take any project and yeah, being transparent with everybody.
Desi: And I think it's interesting to think about too of like, Christy, what you were saying about, do we want to work with them for years to come? Do they want to work with us for years to come? And thinking about also what Regan was saying about how the relationship feels and fast forwarding to the end of a successfully completed project, looking at what does that relationship look like? What does it feel like? How do those interactions take place?
And in using that as a vision of where you want the project to end up and being able to use that almost as a way to work backwards then and say, if that's where the project ends up, is this the relationship we have? How did it start? What did those initial interactions look like? How did we speak to each other? What types of information did we ask for?
What did we share about ourselves personally? And could be something that could be an interesting exercise for designers to go through, right? Because the way you want the relationship to end up could be very different from... I mean, of course, everyone wants a happy client and a nice project at the end. But the tone or the formality or the informality of a relationship can really vary depending on the leader of the business.
And I think it could be something interesting for everyone listening to explore. Now we've talked a lot about relationships and beginning those relationships through the discovery call process. So now what I want to talk about is relationships more on the whole, because building meaningful business relationships is definitely a core tenant in your business. And I'd love for you to speak to that a little bit more. Just telling me and the listeners, what do you mean by building meaningful relationships and really why it is so important to your success as a design firm?
Regan: For us, I think we do see our clients as family. We truly do. And we are with them, you know, like Christy said, for years on end. I mean, most of our projects, residential, I should say, you know, are anywhere from 2 to 3 years or longer even. And then our commercial projects, you know, are anywhere from 6 months to a year.
So you're spending a lot of time with these people. So just building the formality of trust and experience is the best foundation. But when we end a project, we always say we want to be going on family vacations together. And a perfect example of that is a project we just finished with a client and we were their first guests. And we went down to Sioux Falls and put on all our PJs and sat in their new living room with them and drank wine and talked about all the ups and downs of the project and just how that relationship had grew so strong outside of the project itself.
And we see ourselves, you know, being lifelong friends with these clients. And that's something that we really pride ourselves on because it wasn't just this one client, pretty much all our clients, we end with that type of a relationship. And that's ultimately what drives us every day.
Kasey: And it's also the relationships with, you know, others in the industry, our industry partners. There's a much bigger extension to the team than just us. It's everybody that's touching the project, which is a lot of people in the end. So having that foundation of trust and respect with them too is really important in the success of the project.
Regan: It's a small industry. And so, you know, having those great connections, like we can support each other and that's invaluable. Those networking connections and those partners are just so imperative.
Christy: Especially with like contractors, like working together and that's really important.
Kasey: You have to be able to problem solve together and look at each other as a team.
Christy: Yeah. Nothing is weather either. It's always... There's always something that happens in the field, no matter how simple the project might seem.
Desi: Absolutely. I think we can all just have a collective, yes, That is so true. Things are going to go wrong. And so having that strong relationship and seeing each other as valuable project partners and knowing that each person brings something really strong to the table is so important. One of the things I'm curious about is, do you see building relationships as part of your business development process or your marketing as well?
I know we've talked a lot about getting the clients on boarded and then creating a successful project. But I'm curious if you really think about relationship building in terms of marketing or how you continue to grow the brand?
Kasey: Absolutely. I think it's completely integral and they all kind of intersect and intertwine in all sorts of ways. Both business, the people, everything.
Desi: Mm-hmm.
Christy: Yeah, it can be, you know, reps or, you know, manufacturers, builders, like basically anybody, engineers, it goes on and on with how many people we try to stay connected with and build those relationships with because you never know where projects might come from and just like help along the way. If you have questions, you can reach out to somebody and just ask a quick question and have them as like an alternate resource if you don't know the answer to something for a client.
Regan: So and I also think, you know, being women, something that I love about being a woman and love and other women is the nurturing. So we're in a league, I think, made to nurture one another and to nurture relationships, to nurture anyone that comes into our circle. That's just who we are as human beings and as women especially. And so I think it's just in our genes that when we connect with someone, it's like we want to nurture that right away. We want to like, you know, really be fulfilled by that relationship and we want the relationship itself to be fulfilling.
And so I think it's just a very authentic way of who we are and then just making a business out of it.
Desi: Yeah, I think that's so true. When I think about some of the most fulfilling moments of my own business, it's working with the clients, it's working with collaborations for my peers who support the same clientele. It's those conversations and the relationships and the intimacy of getting to know one another and seeing each other's growth and also seeing you overcome obstacles. And that is so deeply fulfilling. And I also think it's interesting, though, I would say a lot of people would say that's true, right?
Especially in a woman-centered field such as interior design, we do value relationships. And I also think it can be difficult for busy designers to make the time to build those relationships. I think we all think, yes, it's important and it's something I want and they're valuable to the business, they're valuable to the client and it can be hard to say I'm gonna take time to do this. So I'd love to know what you have to say about that, how you intentionally create space for relationship building and how it is just a natural part of your cadence.
Regan: I think it's finding the people who are aligned with us and then focusing on those. Not everybody's gonna be our vibe. They're not gonna be in our tribe. And so it's finding those that support us as much as we want to support them and who really believe in us, and then really just focusing and putting our time into those. And then the ones that, you know, maybe just aren't aligned with us and our values and the way our personalities are, it can be anything.
You know, we're not spending as much time in that area or with those people. So it's just being really clear about who you're going to nurture and who you feel comfortable with. And, you know, that's something that takes a while too, because you want everybody to like you and you want to go to everything. Yeah. But if you can be really succinct about, I love being in the presence of this builder, I love being in the presence of this client or this team.
And so then you just really focus on that and put your efforts and energy there.
Christy: And we're trying to figure that out too, like how are we gonna nurture people and how to make it like simple and fun and getting to know them on a deeper level and not just talking about business all the time.
Kasey: And it needs to be exciting too. Yeah. Something everybody wants to do together.
Regan: Yeah. Yeah. I think one thing we have realized too is like we really like more of those one-on-ones or group activities together versus going to large events. Not that those aren't fun or valuable, but we're finding a deeper connection when we can connect on a personal, more of a personal setting and, you know, and there's different ways of doing it. Like maybe you spend all day, it's all how you organize your calendars too.
Like maybe Tuesdays are networking days. So those are the days you're going to go out and you're going to, you're going to do five back-to-back coffee meetings or whatever it is with your people and you're gonna do it once a month or once a quarter. And so you can kind of just move right through it and you're making sure that you're connecting with those people that are in your circle.
Desi: Yeah, I think that specificity around the types of relationships you want to build and how you want to build them, how much time you have to dedicate to building those relationships, it's all really supportive. Because I think sometimes we can operate in silos of our business. And of course, you have a larger team at this point. But I think when you're first starting out or if you're having remote employees, it can feel like you, yourself and I. And you think, Well, I want to go build these relationships.
I wish I had a contractor I could call on for this particular type of project or whatever it is. And without putting some structure around it, supportive structure, not like constrictive, but it could feel really daunting and like something you have to do all the time or you think you have to do... You have to go to the huge industry events. That's the only way to build these relationships when really you want to make those one-on-one connections. And so I think that's so much about knowing yourself and trusting yourself again as the leader of the business is to say, this is the way I like to build relationships.
There are other people out there who want to build relationships with me in this way. And I'm sorry, Kasey, you said to like something that you find fun that you want to do. I think so often we think we have to build relationships in a certain way and we have it be this prescriptive approach that's like something you have no interest in doing. You're like, I don't want to go to those things, but I have to. So then of course, we never make the time and don't actually build those relationships.
I think those are all really insightful tips you just gave. So we also talked a little bit there about team. So I want to transition to team a little bit and your partnership in general. So of course, the relationship between the two of you and now moving into the three of you. So important.
And I know during our coaching, we really worked on enhancing that communication and understanding whose strengths were best suited to different roles in the business. How do you continue to let's start with nurture the relationship that exists between you Regan and you Kasey? And then we'll talk about bringing Christy into the fold as well.
Kasey: I think part of it is like our weekly check-ins. We are pretty adamant on always touching base on a weekly basis, both personally and professionally. So I think having that one-on-one time together really helps keep us on the same page and the business on the same page.
Regan: And I think we've just learned in the 8 years that we've been together, how to work together and when one of us might need space, when one of us might need, you know, extra time or whatever it is, you know, it is like a marriage or harder, maybe even than a marriage. But so we have to go through all of those things that you do in a marriage, you know, and we I think, just really cognizant of what the other person is going through and what they're feeling, what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are, and then being able to step in or step back to allow those to shine.
Desi: One of the things that I'm curious, and I bet other people would be curious about too, is just you two are friends. So how do you balance that? Do you have ways that you draw lines between work and personal that support you in the business? Or how do you manage that?
Kasey: It's definitely tricky. But when we're in the office, it's like work mode on. Obviously, we're still very respectful, but we try to keep it as separate as possible between business and personal.
Regan: Yeah. And I think, again, it's an evolution and it's hard. It's a roller coaster, you know, and learning how to disagree with each other on things and learning how to celebrate too. But I think when you come into work, how, and this is a discussion we had not too long ago, when we're at work, I'm going to respond to you or you're going to respond to me as we're co-working partners as a business mindset. That can be very different than how I would respond to you on the outside as your friend.
So that's the hardest thing is like, as your business partner, this is how I'm going to approach you because right now I'm in business mode and what's most important to me at this moment and I'm business mode is the business. If you ask me the same question or we talk about the same topic outside of work, I'm gonna give you probably a 180 degree different response. So I think that's the biggest thing too. Like Kasey said, drawing that line, we're business here and we're friends, you know, out there. I mean, both of them crossover, but it's just kind of trying to keep that mentality.
Desi: Yeah, I think very much a mindset. And I think a little bit too of maybe training yourself to not read into certain tones or formality of speech or shortness even of speech, right? That maybe as a friend or in a friendship with like on a text thread or something, it's going to be more playful. It's going to be maybe a little quipier. And I think often just like being relational beings, we want to dissect and assign meaning to every interaction that we have.
And I'm sure that's an ongoing process of learning how to navigate those communication ways between the two of you as well.
Kasey: Yeah, and I think we've both just also evolved as people so much with the evolution of the business and gone through different seasons together and differently and it's just we've learned a lot about ourselves and the other person and I think just like any relationship that's being supportive to each other both inside and outside of the office.
Regan: Yeah, and I think anyone who knows us knows we're complete opposites. I mean we are on opposite sides of the any spectrum you put out there that so you know it's learning to respect how each other operates and respecting those differences because they're in the end. They're amazing. The differences really balance each other out.
Desi: Yeah, Absolutely. So yeah, I think that's interesting to talk about with Christy now here entering the picture. If we've got Kasey on one end of the spectrum and Regan on the other, where does Christy fall and how did you consider where on that line you wanted that third partner to be.
Regan: I don't know if we knew. We didn't know that this third partner really existed. So yeah, I don't know if we had this vision, but she, as she stands today, is perfectly in the middle of us. She's a little bit Kasey, a little bit me, and a lot Christy.
Desi: I love it. It's interesting. You've even placed her in the middle. We're recording this for audio but I'm here on Zoom with you. You've even placed her in the middle of you too.
So that's very interesting. So Christy, tell us a little bit about what do you think attracted you to Blue Pencil Collective? Or how did you see this as a relational fit in the business?
Christy: I think at first, it was like the partnership part and then the women-owned. I didn't know them before I started. So, but the first day that I came in, it was like, we all were perfect together. And I could kind of feel that balance and like how I would be in between them a little bit, but not until I started. Then it was like very clear that they were complete opposites.
But it's in a good way because you need the balance and it was hard to navigate right away because I'm like, okay, who do I agree with or disagree with or do how do I say my own real opinion right now? Or when can I voice my opinion? So it's just trying to figure out that too. But now I think I have it down. I feel more comfortable and confident about it.
And nobody's going to be offended. That is just all of us just saying our opinion and it's fine.
Desi: And how do you think the partnership relationship going from two to three is going to shift how you operate the business? Do you see that making any huge changes in how you approach the running of the business? Or do you see the partnership in providing different assets and a different component?
Kasey: I feel like we've always looked at it as a positive to have another person having input in the business. We value opinions and we know that Christy is gonna provide like her real thoughts on every situation. So I think we're really excited for that and looking forward to like how much she contributes.
Regan: And I think it will operate the same. And I think that's what this year leading up to the partnership was really built out for was understanding how she gradually starts to fit in and where she fits in. And ultimately we brought her on to spearhead our commercial side of the business. And so it's pretty clear cut. I mean, we all, you know, have our hands and everything as a small business, but really we brought her on to spearhead that commercial side of BPC.
So that'll kind of be the biggest change. But other than that, you know, besides just standard evolution of better processes, more efficiency and all of that. And then just having another expert in our office, on our team here with us, just validates what we do in our work all the more.
Kasey: We want everything about BPC to be scalable. So ultimately, nothing should really change as far as operations of it. It's just getting a little bit bigger for the better.
Desi: Yeah. Do you see your individual roles as founding partners shifting with the addition of a new partner? Do you see the way that even just you yourself in the business shifting at all?
Regan: Yeah, I think the way we can allocate different parts of the business, We can obviously take some off our shoulders and allocate it to Christy now. And so it's definitely going to provide a little bit more breathing room for Kasey and I.
Desi: Yeah. And I imagine the growth will be there then too of being able to handle more projects, bigger projects. And I'm curious, since she's going to be spearheading commercial, how does that shift your involvement in commercial projects? Still the same? Or do you see that shifting too?
Regan: Probably be a lot more hands off, chiming in and everything, but more hands off. The way we've kind of separated the business now is Kasey spearheading residential and residential design and that aspect. And then Christy is commercial design. And then my specialty is really in construction documents and construction administration. So at a really high level, that's how we've divided it.
But you know, like I said before, we all have our hands kind of a little bit in everything.
Desi: And I think you've given just some insight to into how comprehensive your team has become. I think it'd be interesting for any listeners to just go check out your website. Of course, the website is just fun. I love how you've got the video on there. And I know you said you've got some changes maybe underway too.
So that'll be fun to check out. But the breadth of the services that you're able to offer within the scope of your team is just really cohesive and such an asset to any client who wants to work with you. And I think could be interesting for others to see.
Regan: Yeah. And I think we all came from like the large architecture, global architecture and interior design firms. And in those firms at that scale, you typically have a team of, you know, anywhere from 5 to 10, depending on how big the project is. And everybody's working together on that project. And you'll have project managers, architects, interior designers, and you're not really segregated into this designer is going to do this.
The architect's going to do this. You're all working cohesively on all aspects of that design of that project. And so we really took that whole process and that's, we copied it almost verbatim, but it's just in a more, so the delivery is the same, it's just in a more personal setting. So that's how we're able to do all of it in a small business is because that's how we were taught. That's what we know. And for us, it's comfort.
Christy: And people might not really realize that when they're like working with a large firm, that you have like a small team and we're just like that small team just by ourselves instead of being part of a large firm.
Desi: Such an incredible asset. So when we began this, we went with the theme of relationships. And we've talked about the relationship with the client discovery process from the very get go of the client journey. We've talked about building out your team and the relationships, building those relationships with trade partners and your clients. Is there anything that you for sure wanted to bring to this conversation today that we haven't touched on yet?
Regan: I think we would just say to anyone that's opening a business or is in the thick of a business to what the biggest thing I've learned through business is everything you touch and do should be in the mindset of, could I sell this business and is the scalable? So I guess it depends on what you want your business to do. But if you're building a business that you want to be a legacy and live on past your involvement, those are questions that we ask ourselves whenever we're doing anything. Is it scalable? Is it sellable? Does it bring value?
Desi: Yeah, those are great questions.
Kasey: And I think for me, one of the biggest learning lessons, and I've said this in other interviews too, is just being fearless. Because I am such like a type A personality, I think I was so afraid of failure that it would hold me back. So I think you know just letting go of that and kind of like your website said to you, Desi is like take a gamble on yourself and you just have to go for it. Not think about it so much.
Desi: Yeah, because you're totally smart, you're capable and you'll figure it out. Christy, did you have anything you wanted to add?
Christy: I think we all say like you shouldn't be comfortable. So I think that's a good one to just learning and growing isn't always going to be comfortable. And you should just keep doing that because it's only going to get you somewhere else and bring you to something bigger. You're not in your comfort zone.
Desi: Absolutely. 100% agree with that one. All right. And just as we wrap up here, I'd like to ask if you have anything you'd like to share. I like to give people some insight into what it's like to work with me.
So is there anything for a designer that might be listening and they're like, oh, what's it like to work with Desi that you'd be up for sharing? The toughest hard hitting question of the interview.
Regan: My favorite thing, well I'll go. My favorite thing that I think is, I mean, I don't know if you know anyone else that does what you do, but you're the only one that I've ever known that really combines that sort of therapeutic aspect, you know, the psychology and mental wellbeing with the business structure. That is something I haven't seen before. And they're so interrelated, the amount of therapy that I think, there should be a therapist on every small business, any business, there should be a therapist required to be on staff. And so I don't know how much people realize that and they start working with you.
And a lot of the things that seem like they were business issues or concerns or good things or bad might have been coming from a personal place. And when you can conquer that, the business purchase falls into place. So I think you having not only the interior design background, but then incorporating it with the psychology and business mind is, I think it's just super unique.
Kasey: And you genuinely like care about the people you work with and their businesses. I think that was really apparent from the very beginning.
Desi: Well, thank you. That is true. I appreciate that so much. And it really has been a joy to watch your evolution. And I'd love for you just to share kind of what are you thinking for 2025? What's next?
Regan: Yeah, we're definitely going to, you know, up our game, bring our website to another level, and then just really change our whole marketing approach.
Desi: Say more about that. If you're willing.
Regan: I think it just it goes right along with what we were saying about finding your people and then focusing on them and and then also just really understanding our lead nurturing process and what that looks like and being just really succinct with our time. We're getting much, much better at that and realizing time is money more and more every day. So just understanding where our time is and then focusing our marketing efforts on just strengthening the relationships we believe in this year.
Desi: It's so interesting, right? Because when we think about where you were when we first started working together, right? Like some of those themes were there. It's just as you continue to evolve the business, grow the business, evolve as the business owner, you just continue to deepen those lessons and become more effective and step into that high-level leadership, which I think is rewarding. And also, it takes real dedication and commitment to continue to refine.
I think, especially as you become that more mature CEO and that mature business, that is the work is the refinement.
Kasey: And we're also on the back end working on so many things internally, just to make us more streamlined and efficient and never forgetting about the operations side of everything too because really what keeps our doors open.
Desi: Yeah. All right. Well, where can people find you? Tell us the best places to check you out. I know I've mentioned the website, but maybe you can give the URL and anywhere else you would recommend people look you up or even reach out if they want to say hi or share a takeaway from today?
Kasey: Well, our website is bluepencilcollective.com. We're also on Instagram and Facebook, LinkedIn, or you can reach out to us directly via email too. It's hello at bluepencilcollective.com.
Regan: And our door's always also open if you just want to go old school and stop and say hi.
Desi: Well thank you all for joining me. It was really great to recap some lessons and just catch up a little bit. For everyone listening, I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. And in that episode, I'm going to be talking about a really important topic for this time of year, which is giving yourself enough chances to succeed. We're going to be hitting that mid-January slump, and that's when goals tend to go off track.
So I don't want that to happen for any of you. So make sure you subscribe to the show. And if you enjoyed this interview, make sure to share it with a designer or architect you know, because I know that it would be helpful. Until next Wednesday, I am wishing you a beautiful week and I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks for joining me for this week’s episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit www.desicreswell.com. And if you’re ready to take what you’ve learned on the podcast to the next level, I would love for you to check out my signature group coaching program, Out of Overwhelm.
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