101. Growing a Successful Design Business: Lessons from Campbell Minister
Do you ever feel like you're constantly juggling the demands of your interior design business with your personal life? How can you confidently lead your team while still making time for what matters most to you outside of work? And what’s required of you as you continue to grow and up-level your interior design business?
This week, I’m joined by my former client and incredibly talented designer, Campbell Minister, as she lets us in on her journey from overwhelmed designer to true designer CEO. Over the past eight years, Campbell has grown her Montclair, New Jersey-based firm to a team of three designers, a director of operations, and a procurement and accounting team. But with this growth has come the challenge of maintaining a thriving business while being present in her personal life as a mother of three.
Listen in this week as Campbell shares her insights on the keys to her success as an interior design business CEO. She opens up about her fear of going from solopreneur to leading a full-time team, how she navigates the desire to control every detail, why focusing on relationships, not outcomes, has been vital to her success, and her goals for the near future.
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What You’ll Discover from this Episode:
How Campbell has navigated the journey from solopreneur to confidently leading a team.
Why focusing on relationships, not outcomes, is key to building a thriving referral network.
The importance of getting clear on your non-negotiables in both business and life.
How to overcome perfectionism and take scary but necessary leaps in your business.
Why trusting the process, in design and in coaching, is essential to achieving your goals.
The power of reflecting on how far you've come, even when you still have big goals ahead.
Campbell's goals for 2025.
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Full Episode Transcript:
Hey designer, you’re listening to episode 101, in this one I’m going to be sharing a very special interview with my longtime client, Campbell Minister. Campbell is an incredibly talented designer who really exemplifies the transition from overwhelmed designer to becoming a true designer CEO.
In this interview we cover so many topics ranging from growing and confidently leading her team, what’s required of you as you continue to up-level your goals in your interior design business, the importance of building relationships, navigating wanting both, a thriving business and presence in your personal life, and of course so much more in between. I can not wait for you to listen in to this conversation and hear all of the nuggets of wisdom and advice and guidance that Campbell shares with you. Let’s dive in.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place. I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Desi: Hello designer, welcome back to the podcast. Today, I have a very special guest to share with you. A client of mine, Campbell Minister. She is a talented designer and a lovely person all around. And recently, I was listening to her being interviewed by LuAnn Nigara, which I know we all listen to LuAnn, right? And I thought, why have I not had her on the podcast? So I sent you an email and I thought, hey, let’s do this. And you were game, so here we are today. So welcome, Campbell.
Campbell: Hi.
Desi: Hi. If you wouldn’t mind, just in case everyone hasn’t heard of you, which they will certainly go look you up now, but tell us who you are, where you’re located, types of clients you serve, anything you want to share about your world.
Campbell: All right. Well, thank you for having me. And you’re absolutely right. I think I ended that podcast with LuAnn with a shout out to you, which is true. It’s like a reoccurring voice in my head daily. So my name is Campbell Minister. Company name is Campbell Minister Design. We are located in Montclair, New Jersey, and we serve the tri-state area, you know, New York, New Jersey, I don’t think we’ve gone to Connecticut yet.
I’m from Virginia. So I’m from Arlington, Virginia, the DC area, and I take on some projects down there as well. I have family there and love traveling there. I am kind of, I guess you can say a Southerner at heart, even though Northern Virginia wouldn’t really be considered the South. But I love the architecture, the design, the aesthetic there, so I try to have my foot in both worlds.
I’m about eight years in business. In the beginning, it was just myself and some subcontractors, but the team has grown. So we have three other designers on staff, a director of operations, a procurement team, an accounting team that’s amazing, based virtually, and a virtual assistant also based in the Philly area. So all women, mostly mothers, we serve residential projects, generally anything from a few rooms to a new build, which is the largest project we’re taking on right now in Glen Ridge, New Jersey.
Desi: That’s exciting. I think one of the things that’s interesting, and maybe we’ll get into this at some point, but how you balance the virtual versus in-team support, it seems really integrated in your business from what we’ve coached on and observing your business grow. And so maybe that’ll come up.
I think also just that location that you have is so interesting as well. If anyone’s not familiar with Montclair, go look it up. I wasn’t familiar with it when we started working together, but the geography that you can touch and the design opportunities around you, plus the city itself just seems like such a great place to live. So many wonderful people in that community, too, in terms of the design community, which you had touched on with your interview with LuAnn, and it’s really cool.
Campbell: It’s amazing. It’s kind of a seductive place in that the architecture and history are vast, and it is connected through a train line directly from New York City, like 13 miles. And so it’s always been this haven for artists and business owners who use Montclair as their summer homes. So you can see that in some of the architecture, and it really just means that there’s never-ending old homes that need to be renovated, which is amazing for my line of work.
But also, you’re right, the connection to the city. I think I can count five events that I’m going to at the D&D, you know, 200 Lex, like Connecticut, like just all these resources here sometimes makes it that I don’t even need to go to High Point, right? Because we can dig into that. So yeah, that is correct.
Desi: Yeah, very cool. Well, for a little bit of context, I was looking back, and of course, I remembered when I started working with you, but it was also like a moment of, oh my gosh, a lot of time has passed, right? Because that was 2020. And our first connection was you joining my group program, Out Of Overwhelm. And I was trying to remember, like, I think that might have even been the first round of it.
Campbell: I was wondering that. Yeah, I think it was.
Desi: I couldn’t put it together in terms of, because I’ve changed systems now in terms of like my backend. And so some of that data was unfortunately lost. And I’m like, I think that was the first round, which is just crazy to me. And I remember our consultation, you were on vacation with your family.
Campbell: Yep, I was in South Carolina during the pandemic escaping. Oh yes.
Desi: Yeah, so I remember like seeing you in this hotel room and like your family was fluttering about in the background. And what I think really struck me as I was reflecting on where you were when we first started working together. And then there was some break in there and then we came back together to do a round of private coaching. And then of course, you’ve continued to grow your business after that.
And really looking at that arc that you have progressed along from what I would say is my typical client of overwhelmed designer to designer CEO. And of course, you’re going to continue on to build greater things in the business. But I just thought you were such an example of the work that compounds, right? Because there’s the piece of, yes, we’ve got to get our calendar figured out. We’ve got to stop trying to people please and be everything to everyone. And that is like the seed of what you do later, because it all builds on itself. And that just really struck me as I started thinking about this interview.
Campbell: It’s funny because I’m generally a pretty impatient person. So what you just said is so true. Like, A, reflecting is so important to do. And I’m trying to push myself and my team to do that a little bit more at the end of each project. But now reflecting on that journey, I think that it was a seed that has germinated for four years. And maybe it’s been a little less. I think I hit that stride maybe like three years into that coaching. But it was all so relevant and just like a design project that goes on forever and ever. Some of these projects have long trajectories and you have to trust in the end that it will be worth it.
So yeah, it is evidence now that by reinforcing techniques that you taught and that we all learned as a group and then implementing them and continuing. And really, kudos to you with the podcast because it’s helpful. When I can’t do private coaching now because whatever, I’m too busy or finances or anything, I listen to those podcasts and it’s a good reminder of what was covered because I think you have some recurring themes and topics that come up in those.
But yeah, no, I remember when you were asking about being set up virtually, I was very comfortable early on because I always had VAs prior to the pandemic hitting. So coaching with you was easy because I knew that it was successful. It felt very foreign like four or five years ago to people to do virtual work, but like I was comfortable with that because of our virtual setup.
And that was a really pivotal time. My husband had lost his job in the pandemic and so I needed confidence externally in order to help me bolster myself to take on this next role as breadwinner. Maybe not forever, but at least trying to contribute because I hadn’t been working. I was with my kids at home up until then.
And it was an amazing group. I still talk with some of those members of the group.
Desi: That is something that I underestimated when I started doing the group format of those long standing relationships. And I, of course, keep in touch with several of you that were in that original group too, and it is special.
I want to just circle back to something that you said with the contrast of being an impatient person at times, right, with comparing that to trusting the process in terms of a design project. I think that’s really interesting to think about and also just to have listeners reflect on a little bit because maybe they’ve worked with a coach, maybe they haven’t, maybe they’ve taken steps to try and change things in the business.
And I think most designers, there’s always this little worry about install day, is it really going to look as good as I think it is? Or is it all going to come together? I think a lot of us have that nagging thought. But also there’s an overarching theme of trust I know what I’m doing. This is coming together. Yes, there’s going to be bumps along the road, but this project is happening.
Campbell: No matter what, the train is coming.
Desi: Yeah. But I think that’s interesting to think about with our own personal development. Often we like dip our toe into a change or want to try a strategy, but then we don’t immediately get a result from it and we want to hop strategies because we think, well, maybe that one will work for me. And it’s like, why don’t we have that same level of trust? And I think trust is something we have to build in ourselves.
But if we were to cultivate that same knowing with ourselves of, if I keep at this, if I keep letting this compound or germinate, grow, sprout, to use your analogy, the change will come, it’s inevitable.
Campbell: Right. Well, it was like you said something else too about shiny penny syndrome. I think that’s kind of related to the impatience too, right? It’s like, I wanted things to be done quickly and I equated quickly with success. And I think honestly, the more design projects I’ve done, I realized that you have a process. Maybe I want to move my clients through that process, but sometimes things have to germinate organically with them.
And honestly, I think being an impatient person helps me with communicating with my clients. Look, I know you kind of want this done. I know you want X, Y, and Z picked and checked off your list. Because a lot of the people we work with are highly motivated, successful people who are used to kind of driving things on their own. But I also think having them trust us and being like, trust the process, like it will get done and it will get done well and right, and communicating to them what the design process looks like.
So yeah, it’s just kind of saying that I relate to their impatience because that’s like my default.
Desi: Yeah, and as I’m thinking about this, I think what happens with the shiny penny syndrome and with clients is pretty parallel. Because when I think about your comment on how quick is synonymous with success, I think we want quick because it is going to then provide us evidence that something’s working or we’re on the right path, or it’s going to gain that outcome that we want. That’s where the impatience, I think, often comes from, is we’re not trusting that the success or result we want is inevitable or will arrive for us.
And that’s, I think, when we start wanting to method hop or shiny penny syndrome our way out of a problem in the business. But if we think about it, that’s so similar to when we’re supporting those high-end clients, how important it is to be communicative, to set those expectations, to really help them understand the process, understand the ups and downs of a design project. Because their desire for quickness, I think, is coming from an insecurity or misunderstanding, not having enough reassurance in that their project is being handled well and they’re going to get what they want at the end of it.
Campbell: And that really does come down to trust. And I think we are grateful to have the majority of our clients trust us, but only through what you just stated, evidence of earning that trust, because we have to kind of prove to them, at least in the beginning, that we’re trustworthy as well.
And so there is a little bit in the beginning of quickly responding to them so they can build up that evidence and compound that evidence, which I think then buys time and trust later when things get a little stickier and drag on, right? Like waiting for the countertop template or waiting for the tiler to come or fixing a mistake that was made. Then they know Campbell’s got it, her team’s on it because we earned it.
Desi: For sure. For sure.
Campbell: I didn’t know I was going to get coaching in this call, Desi.
Desi: I can’t help myself.
Campbell: But honestly, it’s so great to hear because I think that explains a lot to me. It’s like trusting that even for myself, like right now I would say trying to support my team in being able to take on projects on their own and removing me from some of the meetings that have to happen. And I want that immediate success, you know? And like I have to remind myself not to be impatient. It might take months and that’s okay. So, yeah, that’s a good reminder. Thank you.
Desi: Oh, you’re very welcome. I feel like there’s another parallel coming once my brain forms the question.
Campbell: No, it’s okay.
Desi: One of the things I was thinking about too is I was actually reviewing our session notes throughout the years and some themes emerged, right? And I think with coaching, it’s an evolving process. Like there are things that we’ve resolved and they tend to not bubble up again. But then there’s also the themes that tend to evolve and progress and you start just understanding or integrating at higher and higher levels. And we don’t necessarily fully release the challenge that we’re presented with, but it’s just being presented in different ways as the business continues to grow and we set bigger goals for ourselves.
And one of the themes that I had noted for you is just that understanding and really owning the value of your services. And I saw in our notes, one of the questions I had put in the notes that I send after the session is complete is, what are you selling or what are clients buying if you aren’t selling a fast timeline?
Campbell: Wow, that’s crazy.
Desi: And I think that you’ve really progressed through that, right?
Campbell: Yeah.
Desi: But I think it’s so in line with what we’re just discussing of the unintentional value that maybe your brain has a pattern of placing on faster equals better. And it’s even showing up here now in a different flavor.
Campbell: Definitely. And it’s funny because I would say within the business, we have moved through that because I’m so much better about communicating upfront like, okay, I see your contractor’s timeline is that we need to have this picked out by the end of September. But I’m just letting you know, that’s likely not going to happen, but we’re still going to work to do X, Y, and Z.
And I just feel like I’m better at knowing that honestly, our process, if anything, is slow and methodical in a way that makes you feel so taken care of that that’s what we’re selling now, is not having to worry about it because we’ve got it and we’re delivering a high-end customer experience where all the little details are taken care of.
And so the speed thing, I mean, I think they appreciate that we’re moving through the list for them and checking their list off. It’s just that we’re not trying to do it in a rushed, hurried way. We want to create calm, you know? But it’s still, obviously, if I’m bringing this up, it’s still my default.
And I think that probably shows up in my home life. Like we needed to pick an oven and a microwave to get a new one. And I was like, we’ve got to do this right now. And you know my husband’s just like, I need a second. Let me think. Like we’re so different, and I love that.
But I think I try to push it maybe where I haven’t sorted it out, you know, or rushing out the door for soccer practice instead of maybe methodically thinking through it a day in advance and putting things out and making the kids feel like my clients feel. Like I have your water bottle here, you just have to fill it. And here are your shoes, but you just have to put them on, you know?
Desi: Yeah. And here’s what I’m thinking now, follow my train of thought.
Campbell: Okay.
Desi: But what if the speed piece is being flipped now on you, right? You said you want your clients to feel like you’re moving through the process in a slow, methodical way where they feel fully supported. And I almost wonder if with your team, now is the time that it flips, right?
It’s like, you’ve got that nailed for the clients. And so with you removing yourself more and more from some of those meetings with the phase of life that you’re headed into and the phase of business you’re headed into, it’s like this is the period of time where it’s slow and methodical, so you feel fully supported. And that is the way.
Campbell: Yeah. My team, meaning I support.
Desi: With your team. No, the team supporting you.
Campbell: Got it. I see what you’re saying.
Desi: And the process of ironing out these pieces of who’s where, who does what is – The slow, methodical approach is the way, just like you see it in your business. And I wonder if that might help feel a little bit more patience or trust around how that unfolds.
Campbell: Right. I’m going to have to marinate on that. I’m like, how do I help them feel that way?
Desi: Yeah. It was just something that came to mind, so I thought I’d share it.
Campbell: No, I love it. Thank you.
Desi: Yeah.
Campbell: I think tied to that is the navigating thriving business and presence in my personal life. And I had mentioned to you prior to this interview that continues to be a theme, right? And I try to protect that and I’m so much more clear without feeling guilt, right? Like I look at the calendar at the beginning of the year, whenever my kids are off, we are closed, period.
We did it once this summer because it was tricky. And we had a paper hanger go and install something when we were out of office because we thought it would be, oh, no big deal, just paper, like whatever. But obviously learned the hard way, like again, that we have to be present. We have to check on his work. It’s the smallest details, right?
So generally a policy is like, we’re not going to just send a trades person without being available that day to check on their work. And having kids in that balance and juggling that, I mean, I would say I’ve gotten the support inside of my family now to help me be working more at work. And I realize that for me, I don’t need to necessarily be at every pickup from school every day. And in fact, it’s counterintuitive to me because I can’t fully be present with them five days a week at pickup. I’m thinking about what I didn’t do.
So I’m just constantly juggling, every year is new, but now it’s two days a week I pick up and three days a week I’m working and they take the bus and someone’s here for them. And that’s okay. So I love the flexibility of owning a business. But again, I think I’m just always navigating wanting to “have both.” And I think I’m, knock on wood, doing a decent job of that. Hopefully my kids would say the same thing.
Desi: Well, I think what you’re doing is prioritizing what matters to you and what matters to your family. I was just talking to another one of my clients about this and looking at it, I don’t like the phrase work-life balance particularly, I think it’s too rigid. I look at it as work-life blend and the blend changes.
But one of the things I was talking to him about is figuring out what are your non-negotiables in that work-life blend? Because you could totally make it happen if you wanted to pick up your kids five days per week. But you also might have the worst experience of it, both for you and for them, versus saying like, no, it’s important for me to be at the school and establish those connections or see their cute little faces when they come out and they’re so excited. But I also know that it’s not realistic or doable for me to do it five days per week. So I’m going to do it too and totally love when I’m doing it, and also be totally okay not doing it the other days.
Campbell: Yeah. No, that’s a great point. And I feel like I’ve gotten to that point now. You know what I’m struggling with? It’s funny that we’re having this conversation. I woke up thinking to myself like, God, I really need to find a class or do something for me or play pickleball or like, you know, it’s not just about kids and work. It was that way for so long, like balancing those two things.
And then today on my calendar, it was like, you know I have these phrases and it’s like, I’m in control of spicing up my daily routine or trying a new setting and making each day exciting. I was like, oh, the universe is telling me to get online and find a class. That’s what I need to add in, I think, in my 40s, is something that’s just for me that’s not just about building the business. It’s like maintaining social relationships so I’m not just defining myself as mother, designer, business owner.
Desi: Oh yeah, totally. Totally.
Campbell: Which I tend to do. I’m very rigid in those things, unfortunately.
Desi: I think design is an interesting industry or career to have in that one of the things I’ve been thinking about is it does often feel like design chooses you. And so it’s like this encompassing love that you have for the business, for design in that industry. And it can be challenging to think outside of that because it’s not like you’re working against something you don’t like, necessarily, but it’s like exploring what else there is to enjoy.
So it’s like that transition of like, we don’t have to do less of something or make it less part of our world or identity because we don’t like it. It’s just like we’re broadening our perspective on what it is that we might enjoy, who we might want to be or who we want to connect with. And I totally relate to that, so I appreciate you sharing that.
It was interesting you brought up the phrase in control, right? Because this was another theme that I was noticing just as it evolves, right? Of continuing to uplevel the type of goal setting you’re doing, the types of projects you’re bringing in, the income level that the business is generating, and really feeling in control of the future of the business.
And I know that’s something that we definitely worked on. And I think it’s, again, one of those pieces where you get to a point where, yeah, you’ve achieved what you want to achieve. And then you want to do more, right? And then that requires another up-level.
So I’m so curious, just like what you have noticed over the years about that for yourself. And if you could share a little bit.
Campbell: Yeah, so I would say I was lonely in my business at the beginning. So it was always a goal to have a team. And I think that’s probably why the group coaching was so attractive to me, because it was like craving other designers. I still do, right? I have all these groups of people I connect with, but working day in, day out and collaborating with other people and leading a team and creating a culture.
And for so long, I was so afraid to make that first hire. And then I made that hire, and I was afraid then to take it from 1099 to actually like a W2 employee. And I just hit that goal this past summer. And I didn’t go small, I brought on four W2 employees at once. But it was just the fear of making that hurdle. And I also think some of it, which is funny you’re saying control, was like giving up control, which is probably why I have a hard time letting my team go out and run meetings, because I think I am kind of controlling and I see it. And my husband reminds me of that sometimes.
Desi: In a loving way, I’m sure.
Campbell: In a loving way, but like his way of, you know, everyone says doing the dishwasher, but it’s true. Like his way of doing the dishwasher is different from mine. His way of comforting our children is different from mine. His way of organizing our weekends is different from mine. So I do show up and try to control the way things are done.
And I think that’s good to an extent to have a process, but also honoring each teammate’s different style in their approach to the process and trusting that I made the right choice in the beginning to partner that designer with that client based on certain factors, their personality type, the aesthetic.
I think I’m getting off topic, but the control thing I think plays out in giving up control that the outcome we want to be the same, the way we measure room needs to be the same, the way we get there is generally the same, but the nuances within, I can let go of that. I don’t have all the answers.
And sometimes it’s amazing because my team, that’s why I hired them. They have a different perspective to give. They help me to remember things or think of things because I’m juggling some more balls and kind of now what I wanted has come to fruition. And now I’m dealing with a lot more managing people than I am designing every day. So I have to trust that I hired those people to bring my vision to life because of their skill sets too.
Desi: Yeah. Which starts with trusting, like you said, you in the beginning of why you brought these people on.
Campbell: Exactly.
Desi: And it feels similar to the conversation around non-negotiables that we were having in life. It’s like, what are the non-negotiables in the business where it does make sense for you to be at that meeting or if there is a certain way that you want the client communicated with or whatever it is. Taking a look at what are those things where my exacting way actually creates a measurable difference in the outcome or client experience versus this is just me being particular.
Campbell: Right. Yes.
Desi: We have this little song we sing because we’re all very particular in my family where we’re like, Mr. Particular.
Campbell: Is that a song or did you make it up?
Desi: No, we’ve just all made it because we all are very particular. So it’s become a little bit of a joke, but it’s like, when are we just engrossed in our own neuroses where we don’t really need to be? And it’s like, yeah, that’s not the exact way I would do it, but it doesn’t actually matter.
Campbell: I think that is maybe what I need coaching on because even my operations director, she balances me so well because I’m like, well, did you do this and did you do that? And she’s like, calm down. The end result is that the client is happy, and no I didn’t do X and Y, but I did do Y and Z. And I’m like, okay.
So yeah, I guess that is my own neuroses, right? The control. And I don’t know what that’s about. I would love to explore that in a future conversation.
Desi: We don’t have to do that live, but yeah, happy to talk to you about that when we’re not recording.
Campbell: But I would say when we’re running 15 design projects or whatever, all in different phases, so it sounds like a lot, but honestly some are in ordering and we’re just waiting for things to come and others are in full design and the client work, and some are just in the beginning in the conceptual phase. I think that you have to be able to give up some of that.
And so part of me realizes that I purposefully do it so that I won’t have the ability to be so nitpicky. But I do think there’s a balance of maybe dialing it back as seasons change, seasons literally of the year or seasons in your life.
Desi: Yeah, for sure.
I want to just touch on your turning point of being afraid to bring on those full-time employees and then all of a sudden being like, hey, I’m going to hire four people at once. So could you just share a little bit more about how you got over the hump?
Campbell: Yeah, I would say in regards to finally bringing on full-time hires, I think that part of it was watching them grow and building trust with them as 1099 employees. So I needed to see that, right, for them to kind of prove to me that they were worth that. In a way I hate to say that, but you take on so much when you do that. The taxes, kind of just responsibility, if their role grows there’s 401ks and there’s just so much.
And that was part of it, I think. Part of my fear was feeling like it was a very big responsibility. And then saying, okay, can I be a mother of three children, have a business and be responsible for someone else’s well-being in their financial take-home? I mean, it was scary, but I did hire fractional HR support. So I hired someone who was a professional in that field to teach me what I didn’t know because I didn’t want to do it the wrong way.
So I redid my contract with a lawyer for clients, but at the same time, I asked him to create an employee handbook and also create a non-solicitation agreement, all the things that I think I would want to put in place with employees. Then I had the HR professional tweak that and put my voice and branding on it and really dig into the value and culture of the company.
So that took a while. I think I stalled and delayed, and I know I was the one to maybe push off the meeting and push off the, you know, because they’d be like, all right, we’re ready to move forward to the next phase and do this. But I just didn’t want to bring people on without knowing that I exactly could articulate what we wanted as a company and what the expectations of them were.
So that was the delay. And then at once, I just was like, I can’t talk about this anymore, we got to do it. And they were already working on projects. Some of them had been with me for three years. But I also wanted to honor what they wanted. Do you want to be a subcontractor? Do you want to be an employee? There is some level of control around schedule, right?
So if we’re trying to grow as a business, and we have more and more client interests, knock on wood, which we do, which is great, I can’t have people just deciding how much they want to work a week. I need to say, I need you 20 hours, like even if it’s 20 hours, and I need you on these days.
And we’re more focused on project deadlines than we are on the hours, but still giving that parameter. Maybe that’s a better word, not control, but parameter to them of the expectations and being more clear was the point I got to. It just wasn’t functioning well with this ambiguity around their role and timelines.
Desi: Yeah. No, I think that’s so helpful for everyone to hear. And what it makes me think about is just that balance of when it is necessary to hire someone to get support, to take the time to put specific strategic plans in place. And then also paired with like, when do you just need to get out of your own way from a mindset perspective?
Because I think one of the things that when I coach with clients, I’m always looking at it from these multiple perspectives of, is this a strategy issue or like a tactic? Do they need some piece of information delivered? Or is this a mindset block that it’s a limiting belief or just a belief they’ve held that they don’t even recognize they have an option around? And I think it's rarely just one or the other.
And so I think that’s such a great example just of how you in one scenario could kind of summarize like, what are those different pieces and how both of them are really necessary to work through whatever that next goal is in the business.
Campbell: Yeah. And I think the block for me, if I’m being honest, was perfectionism, right? And I had to get over that and just say, what is that phrase? Like, done is good enough. I don’t know. Instead of it being 100%, it had to be like 85, and then I could sort out the rest.
And it was so scary, formal offer letters, formal rates, formal hours, signatures, setting them up with payroll. Some of these women were my friends prior to them coming on, and that was also a hurdle. And I think we’ve done a decent job of separating that, which is personal and professional.
Desi: I would agree with that from what you’ve shared. And I think that’s another good point you bring up of how sometimes these moves we make in our business, no matter how prepared we are, no matter how many times we’ve gotten coaching on it, it’s just going to feel scary.
And it’s so helpful, I think, to come to some of those scarier moves with the perspective of like, this just isn’t going to feel great, and I’m going to keep moving forward inch by inch or leap by leap, whatever that comfort level is. But sometimes it just is going to be scary. And that’s part of what being the CEO of your business is, taking those leaps when you mostly feel ready for it.
Campbell: Yep. So true.
Desi: Yeah. And that really goes to one of the other themes that I was reflecting on around confidence in your leadership abilities and building your team. And I think you’ve shared so much about that along the way. And I think it’s cool to imagine what that’s going to look like even a year from now with the shifts that you’re starting to think about. What does that look like? Who do I need to be in that process? I think it’s a really exciting time.
Campbell: Exciting and scary. Yes. And it’s something I feel like I’m probably pouring more into leadership development for myself and how to be a good leader than anything else at this time because I think I don’t ever want to, I know I don’t want to have an enormous firm. Like I’m comfortable with the designers we have now and the project size we are now until my children are kind of out of the house and off to college. Like I could see that changing.
But for the next 10 or so years, I’m in a good rhythm and I like this. It allows me, back to the balance, to have work-life balance. And I think that’s okay. I need to remember that I’m in charge of my own company and I can change my mind. And that’s probably something I struggle with, is changing my mind and making a different path and saying it’s okay that I don’t want to be bigger, better published, all these things. Because Instagram especially is still that tool, I feel, for our industry. And so you can get sucked up in comparison very easily, you know?
Desi: Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. And I think if anyone can just take one takeaway from that comment that you just made is like, yes, you can change your mind. I think it’s interesting, and I’ve been working through some of this as well over the past maybe six months or so where it’s like we start the business because we want to be the one in charge, to be the one who calls the shots. And we create these rules and then we don’t let ourselves break them.
Campbell: Which goes back to that, like on the podcast you’ve talked about the calendar and living by your little boxes on Google and all these timeframes. And like, that’s what I’m speaking to when I speak about, well, I need to carve out some personal time in there because I look at those color-coded – My team wants to vomit when they see my calendar, but it makes sense for me, right? Color-coded little calendar invites. And it’s like, maybe there should be some personal stuff in that. Who said that they had to stay, you know?
Desi: Yeah, go put them on there now, even if you don’t know what you’re going to do with them.
Campbell: Right. I think that was some coaching that you did that was like, enlightening for me. So I have on every Friday, one to three, Campbell no appointments.
Desi: Yeah.
Campbell: And it’s great. I sent it to the team. It’s like they need to know that’s a hold for me.
Desi: So now you just build on that. Like you already have the skill set, you’ve already implemented it to some degree. And now it’s just going to take on the next layer.
Campbell: Right, right.
Desi: The one last thing I really wanted to make sure that we touched on in this conversation is around relationship building, because that’s something that I remember us coaching on, especially when you were working on the whole less projects, but better projects piece of the business that I think every designer aspires to and progresses through. And I think that relationship building has been such a strong part of your business, and even just you in your community with designers.
When I talk to designers, or I coach them on relationship building as a form of marketing, I think people are like, they get a little like, I don’t know about that. That feels too forward. Or what do I have to offer? Or I think I should go implement this huge Instagram strategy and marketing campaign. And I’m like, but there’s something so simple right here that you could just do and you could start doing it next week.
So I’m curious, like what your philosophy has been around relationship building, and even just the perspective that you take to it that has allowed it to be a natural part of your business’s evolution.
Campbell: Also, I mean, I’m hard on myself sometimes because I’m like, “Oh, I should be doing more,” right? I should be attending local events. And, you know, there’s art shows that you’re going to run into other builders, designers, tradespeople. And I know that saying yes to those events is helpful in that you just are developing a relationship. And I think I might’ve said this on LuAnn’s podcast, but focusing on the relationship, not the outcome and what you’re getting from that relationship, I think is really important.
Like there’s a builder I did a project with, we tried a new way where I ran through their company and I was kind of like their sub and this happened. And it was, you know, beautiful pictures were taken, but the process of working through that project wasn’t great, to be honest, and we both know it. So fast forward six months later, it’s like, hey, let’s grab a cup of coffee and talk about that, right?
And I think what that’s saying is we value each other. We know that we want to commit to excellence and like, let’s just focus on our relationship to allow and make way for other projects to kind of come our way. So that’s one example of that.
The architect relationship that we’ve developed and having architects come and train my team most recently, one of them, I think I referred to you and was your client, Courtney Rombo. And we both joke every now and then, she’s like, “God, I think I need a little tune up with Desi.” So that was a great connection. And sharing that with other people in the community, like genuinely helping them, I think is also good.
Hey, I need a great painter. Who do you have that’s a valuable resource to other designers? And we just share, genuinely share, not just like surface share. We’re giving people, trades people up that we trust who frankly could take away from their job, right? If I book them, they may not be able to use them, but that’s like such a gracious act of kindness and I know she’s giving me someone that she trusts.
I think right now my focus is on relationship building with designers in the industry outside of New Jersey, because I do want to focus a little bit more on press in 2025 and just get my name out there because I want to attract a certain type of client and project. And I think that press, I need to have a clear goal. It’s not to make more money or even be an ego stroke, right? Because I think sometimes you can get caught up in that stuff, but it’s to give credibility to existing clients and attract clients that have certain projects that want a certain style and aesthetic and want to buy products that are a little more quality than maybe I have on past projects.
So by going to these industry events, connecting with design professionals, networking by just showing up and learning, I know that will come from that. Like it just happens organically.
Desi: It does. It does. Yeah. I was just talking to a friend and thinking just how that has been so evident in my career trajectory, even just being a recent grad of design school back in 2006 and like how the thread of relationships has always been so important and not even something I knew I was doing.
But I think what you say is so important, it’s about the relationship. And I think when we focus on the relationship, then it becomes enjoyable.
Campbell: Yeah.
Desi: Right? It doesn’t become this big, scary thing you’re supposed to do on a Friday because you told yourself at 11am I’m going to go network. But you get to enjoy the people that you get to work with and get to know them on a personal level and as people. And I think that some of the most rewarding pieces of owning your own business are those relationships. So I appreciate you sharing that perspective.
Campbell: Yeah. And to drive it home, even on the vendor side, you know, they offer these vendor showroom, or vendor visits where they come to your local community and they give fabrics. And like, you may not need a fabric for a project, right? But you’re going to go in and see something you didn’t know you need, number one.
Number two, the reps. Also, it’s the same thing, I was just talking about it with one of the reps. She said her bosses want her to sell more, right? And I said, what we just had here by talking and knowing each other and me seeing something pretty and ordering memos, like I may call you in three years and order like a hundred yards of a fabric because of the way you treated me and I treated you and the connection that we made.
So again, back to the beginning of our conversation about the seed and like germinating and the trajectory and patience, I think that’s part of that selling process too. It’s just, it’s relationship-based in my mind. And that’s always helpful, especially if you need a rep to bail you out of a sticky situation. Shout out to Scott Harrington from JF Fabrics specifically.
Desi: Oh, I love it. I love it.
Campbell: Yeah.
Desi: Totally. Yep, I hear you on that one. Oh man, all right, we’ve covered a lot of ground. We should bring it on home because I feel like we could just chat all day, but usually my podcasts are not that long.
Campbell: No, that’s okay.
Desi: Yeah, but I mean one of the questions I do want to kind of, not end with, but like ease into our wrapping up here is just, what do you think is really next for you in 2025? I know you mentioned some press, releasing some of the hold that you have on responsibilities in the business. Is there anything else? Like if we were to wave that magic wand, what might appear?
Campbell: I was looking at some of our notes from past conversations and it still is around also like profitability goals. And like, I think I’ve reached a new threshold of what I hope to make from an income perspective. And so setting new targets around that for 2025. Part of that is tied back to like what I want to contribute to my family, right?
So that’s a huge one for me, and I think in order to achieve that it’s streamlining processes, it’s being thoughtful about the types of projects that I take. And I do think, to your point, the team and getting them set up to be leaders on their own projects is huge. I really would like to, I’ve said this for a couple of years, but I would really like to take them to High Point or some other trip like that. I want them to be exposed to better brands. And that’s important to me because I think that will make the quality of what we deliver to clients much more valuable.
Yeah, I think that’s it. I would be around, and the press thing is true. I mean, I would say there’s some holdups on my end as to marketing also in some ways, sharpening my Instagram, like kind of culling and creating this like brand presence and making time for that because I think the quality of work that we’re producing is amazing and I don’t know if our Instagram and the way we package it to clients is in line and in sync.
So that’s a big goal too. Making time for that will be challenging and remains to be seen a little bit. But that’s why I’m going to give more responsibility to the team.
Desi: I was just going to say, this sounds like a great thing for the team to get started with.
Campbell: Yeah.
Desi: Bring you where they take it and then you refine it.
Campbell: Yeah. You’re flipping the script for me and my mind is like, what? But okay, let’s continue that on a coaching call. How about that?
Desi: Yeah, that sounds good. Is there anything that, you know, you’re like, oh, we didn’t get to this or I really want to make sure people hear this?
Campbell: One thing, and I don’t know if this is also something you took from someone else, but like end with the vision in mind and the outcome in mind. And when you’re stuck in the weeds of doing the day to day, like what do you see as the project? How will the family feel in their space?
That has been so helpful for me. And I use that with my kids if they're nervous about a presentation. I use it with my team when they’re stuck with clients that maybe they aren’t jiving with. And I think that just that’s a helpful tool to get people out of a sticky situation when your mindset is in the wrong place of complaining about the day to day or getting stuck in the weeds, you know?
Desi: Yeah. I usually talk about it in terms of business and life vision or consulting your future self. It might be next year. It could be next month. It could be five years from now. But I think always connecting into what that feeling is that you want to create for yourself because that’s a starting point.
And I think often when I start working with clients, it’s hard to see or recognize the thoughts we have that create the feelings. And it just feels like truth just running around in our head all day long. And we believe it. I think often the feeling is something more available, and if we can think about what is that feeling that I want to create? Do I want it to feel spacious, supported, luxurious? You know, it could be for your clients, for you, whatever it is.
Then we can go, okay, so if that’s the feeling that I want to be experiencing, what is it that I need to believe about that future version of myself, the future version of the business? And I think it becomes then so much easier to set goals and understand what our next steps are once we have that in place.
Campbell: Yep, helps you get unstuck for sure.
Desi: Yeah, because we do loop in our heads. And so taking ourselves to a future where it has worked out, we’ve got the evidence that I made it happen, I’m capable, can really shift your perspective quite quickly.
Campbell: Yeah. And I did, I wanted to give a kudos to you, The CEO Summer School. I listened pretty religiously. And it was a great tidbit every time. So thank you for that. And I know you touched on some of that in one of the sessions.
Desi: I’m so glad you followed along. We had a lot of people come to that. That was exciting.
Campbell: It was awesome. And it felt like exactly what coaching is in another way, right? Like, hey, I’m giving you this, like here’s this worksheet. And now you have to do the work, right? Remembering that we, as the clients that you’re coaching, I mean, we are accountable for our own success.
Desi: Yeah. I think it’s interesting you bring that up. One of the things that I’ve been thinking about a lot is how do I even better convey like, what is coaching, right? Because I think some of my clients have worked with coaches before, some haven’t, a variety of backgrounds. And I would love to know just what do you think coaching is? Like, what does that mean to you?
Campbell: I will say it was surprising to me how much work I still had to do four years ago, right? To me, it was more like an accountability partner, number one, and a thought partner. And also someone who supports and brings out the goals you already have within you. It’s not like you’re giving me or prescribing me some sort of medicine to fix my problems. Like I have that intuition, the coach is just helping draw it out.
I mean, I would say the most powerful thing that you offer that I think differentiates you too is around the thought and emotion piece. And like, it’s just so scientific, it’s so helpful to have that. I don’t know if every coach does that. I think it’s become more popular, but you tapped into it kind of earlier.
So yeah, I think it’s someone else, someone who’s supporting you and holding you accountable to tap into your own intuition and create lasting change in life, business, whatever.
Desi: Yeah, and I think the lasting change really comes from learning to access your own internal world, essentially. Because otherwise, we end up just fighting against ourselves. I certainly offer strategy to my clients at times, and we’ll say, hey, this could be something you could do. But also, if it’s something that you just aren’t interested in doing, or there’s some reason where structurally it’s not going to work for you, let’s not spend a bunch of time fighting against it. Let’s figure out what actually would work for you.
And I think that can really create so much more ease in the business as well. Ease among the hard.
Campbell: Yeah, exactly. And when it gets hard, it’s helpful to have someone help you push through all that.
Desi: Yeah, so valuable to have space.
Campbell: Absolutely. But I love getting your Monday emails. I think the consistency of what you deliver is amazing. And I get a lot of rando emails, right, or just like listservs, and I love yours. So please know that. It’s a good, helpful – Even right around now, like 1:45 on a Monday and I’m like, okay, my brain and my energy. And you know, it’s a great little Monday mindset pick me up.
Desi: Yeah, so that’s my plug. If you aren’t already subscribed –
Campbell: Softball.
Desi: Yeah. DesiCreswell.com, scroll all the way down, you’ll find Monday Mindset.
Campbell: It’s great. They’re awesome. Yeah, very valuable. So thank you.
Desi: Yeah. Well, I’ve so appreciated this conversation and having the opportunity to travel back in time, it almost feels like. And also then travel to the future.
Campbell: I’m honored you asked me. I was like, “Oh, that’s so nice.” But also, you’re right, it’s been so nice to reflect and just look at the trajectory and see how far things have come.
Desi: Yeah, I’ve got so far to go. But it’s like we always kind of have so far to go, and you’ve come so far.
Campbell: Right.
Desi: And so I think it’s always helpful to take those moments to show that appreciation and reflect on what has progressed throughout the years, even if the years to come will bring their own challenges and their own different types of growth that will be required of you.
Campbell: Yeah. So thank you for that. It was a nice pause on a crazy Monday. I appreciate it.
Desi: Yeah, so I want to make sure that everyone could look you up. Would you mind sharing where other designers can connect with you, see your work?
Campbell: CampbellMinisterDesign.com is our website. Same thing, the handle is @CampbellMinisterDesign on Instagram. We’re pretty active there sharing a lot of stories and work. I am involved in a lot of the design industry events out here. On my to-do list is to join ASID New Jersey, so that will be an event coming up this month or next month I think that I’ll be going to. I believe LuAnn’s going to be there. But yeah, that’s the best place to contact us, website, Instagram.
Desi: All right, well, everyone go look up Campbell because she’s incredible. And really, that’s what we’ve got for you today. I’ll be back next week with a brand new episode. And until then, I’m wishing you a beautiful week.
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Thanks for joining me for this week’s episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit www.desicreswell.com. And if you’re ready to take what you’ve learned on the podcast to the next level, I would love for you to check out my signature group coaching program, Out of Overwhelm.
In this interview we cover so many topics ranging from growing and confidently leading her team, what’s required of you as you continue to up-level your goals in your interior design business, the importance of building relationships, navigating wanting both, a thriving business and presence in your personal life, and of course so much more in between. I can not wait for you to listen in to this conversation and hear all of the nuggets of wisdom and advice and guidance that Campbell shares with you. Let’s dive in.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place. I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Desi: Hello designer, welcome back to the podcast. Today, I have a very special guest to share with you. A client of mine, Campbell Minister. She is a talented designer and a lovely person all around. And recently, I was listening to her being interviewed by LuAnn Nigara, which I know we all listen to LuAnn, right? And I thought, why have I not had her on the podcast? So I sent you an email and I thought, hey, let’s do this. And you were game, so here we are today. So welcome, Campbell.
Campbell: Hi.
Desi: Hi. If you wouldn’t mind, just in case everyone hasn’t heard of you, which they will certainly go look you up now, but tell us who you are, where you’re located, types of clients you serve, anything you want to share about your world.
Campbell: All right. Well, thank you for having me. And you’re absolutely right. I think I ended that podcast with LuAnn with a shout out to you, which is true. It’s like a reoccurring voice in my head daily. So my name is Campbell Minister. Company name is Campbell Minister Design. We are located in Montclair, New Jersey, and we serve the tri-state area, you know, New York, New Jersey, I don’t think we’ve gone to Connecticut yet.
I’m from Virginia. So I’m from Arlington, Virginia, the DC area, and I take on some projects down there as well. I have family there and love traveling there. I am kind of, I guess you can say a Southerner at heart, even though Northern Virginia wouldn’t really be considered the South. But I love the architecture, the design, the aesthetic there, so I try to have my foot in both worlds.
I’m about eight years in business. In the beginning, it was just myself and some subcontractors, but the team has grown. So we have three other designers on staff, a director of operations, a procurement team, an accounting team that’s amazing, based virtually, and a virtual assistant also based in the Philly area. So all women, mostly mothers, we serve residential projects, generally anything from a few rooms to a new build, which is the largest project we’re taking on right now in Glen Ridge, New Jersey.
Desi: That’s exciting. I think one of the things that’s interesting, and maybe we’ll get into this at some point, but how you balance the virtual versus in-team support, it seems really integrated in your business from what we’ve coached on and observing your business grow. And so maybe that’ll come up.
I think also just that location that you have is so interesting as well. If anyone’s not familiar with Montclair, go look it up. I wasn’t familiar with it when we started working together, but the geography that you can touch and the design opportunities around you, plus the city itself just seems like such a great place to live. So many wonderful people in that community, too, in terms of the design community, which you had touched on with your interview with LuAnn, and it’s really cool.
Campbell: It’s amazing. It’s kind of a seductive place in that the architecture and history are vast, and it is connected through a train line directly from New York City, like 13 miles. And so it’s always been this haven for artists and business owners who use Montclair as their summer homes. So you can see that in some of the architecture, and it really just means that there’s never-ending old homes that need to be renovated, which is amazing for my line of work.
But also, you’re right, the connection to the city. I think I can count five events that I’m going to at the D&D, you know, 200 Lex, like Connecticut, like just all these resources here sometimes makes it that I don’t even need to go to High Point, right? Because we can dig into that. So yeah, that is correct.
Desi: Yeah, very cool. Well, for a little bit of context, I was looking back, and of course, I remembered when I started working with you, but it was also like a moment of, oh my gosh, a lot of time has passed, right? Because that was 2020. And our first connection was you joining my group program, Out Of Overwhelm. And I was trying to remember, like, I think that might have even been the first round of it.
Campbell: I was wondering that. Yeah, I think it was.
Desi: I couldn’t put it together in terms of, because I’ve changed systems now in terms of like my backend. And so some of that data was unfortunately lost. And I’m like, I think that was the first round, which is just crazy to me. And I remember our consultation, you were on vacation with your family.
Campbell: Yep, I was in South Carolina during the pandemic escaping. Oh yes.
Desi: Yeah, so I remember like seeing you in this hotel room and like your family was fluttering about in the background. And what I think really struck me as I was reflecting on where you were when we first started working together. And then there was some break in there and then we came back together to do a round of private coaching. And then of course, you’ve continued to grow your business after that.
And really looking at that arc that you have progressed along from what I would say is my typical client of overwhelmed designer to designer CEO. And of course, you’re going to continue on to build greater things in the business. But I just thought you were such an example of the work that compounds, right? Because there’s the piece of, yes, we’ve got to get our calendar figured out. We’ve got to stop trying to people please and be everything to everyone. And that is like the seed of what you do later, because it all builds on itself. And that just really struck me as I started thinking about this interview.
Campbell: It’s funny because I’m generally a pretty impatient person. So what you just said is so true. Like, A, reflecting is so important to do. And I’m trying to push myself and my team to do that a little bit more at the end of each project. But now reflecting on that journey, I think that it was a seed that has germinated for four years. And maybe it’s been a little less. I think I hit that stride maybe like three years into that coaching. But it was all so relevant and just like a design project that goes on forever and ever. Some of these projects have long trajectories and you have to trust in the end that it will be worth it.
So yeah, it is evidence now that by reinforcing techniques that you taught and that we all learned as a group and then implementing them and continuing. And really, kudos to you with the podcast because it’s helpful. When I can’t do private coaching now because whatever, I’m too busy or finances or anything, I listen to those podcasts and it’s a good reminder of what was covered because I think you have some recurring themes and topics that come up in those.
But yeah, no, I remember when you were asking about being set up virtually, I was very comfortable early on because I always had VAs prior to the pandemic hitting. So coaching with you was easy because I knew that it was successful. It felt very foreign like four or five years ago to people to do virtual work, but like I was comfortable with that because of our virtual setup.
And that was a really pivotal time. My husband had lost his job in the pandemic and so I needed confidence externally in order to help me bolster myself to take on this next role as breadwinner. Maybe not forever, but at least trying to contribute because I hadn’t been working. I was with my kids at home up until then.
And it was an amazing group. I still talk with some of those members of the group.
Desi: That is something that I underestimated when I started doing the group format of those long standing relationships. And I, of course, keep in touch with several of you that were in that original group too, and it is special.
I want to just circle back to something that you said with the contrast of being an impatient person at times, right, with comparing that to trusting the process in terms of a design project. I think that’s really interesting to think about and also just to have listeners reflect on a little bit because maybe they’ve worked with a coach, maybe they haven’t, maybe they’ve taken steps to try and change things in the business.
And I think most designers, there’s always this little worry about install day, is it really going to look as good as I think it is? Or is it all going to come together? I think a lot of us have that nagging thought. But also there’s an overarching theme of trust I know what I’m doing. This is coming together. Yes, there’s going to be bumps along the road, but this project is happening.
Campbell: No matter what, the train is coming.
Desi: Yeah. But I think that’s interesting to think about with our own personal development. Often we like dip our toe into a change or want to try a strategy, but then we don’t immediately get a result from it and we want to hop strategies because we think, well, maybe that one will work for me. And it’s like, why don’t we have that same level of trust? And I think trust is something we have to build in ourselves.
But if we were to cultivate that same knowing with ourselves of, if I keep at this, if I keep letting this compound or germinate, grow, sprout, to use your analogy, the change will come, it’s inevitable.
Campbell: Right. Well, it was like you said something else too about shiny penny syndrome. I think that’s kind of related to the impatience too, right? It’s like, I wanted things to be done quickly and I equated quickly with success. And I think honestly, the more design projects I’ve done, I realized that you have a process. Maybe I want to move my clients through that process, but sometimes things have to germinate organically with them.
And honestly, I think being an impatient person helps me with communicating with my clients. Look, I know you kind of want this done. I know you want X, Y, and Z picked and checked off your list. Because a lot of the people we work with are highly motivated, successful people who are used to kind of driving things on their own. But I also think having them trust us and being like, trust the process, like it will get done and it will get done well and right, and communicating to them what the design process looks like.
So yeah, it’s just kind of saying that I relate to their impatience because that’s like my default.
Desi: Yeah, and as I’m thinking about this, I think what happens with the shiny penny syndrome and with clients is pretty parallel. Because when I think about your comment on how quick is synonymous with success, I think we want quick because it is going to then provide us evidence that something’s working or we’re on the right path, or it’s going to gain that outcome that we want. That’s where the impatience, I think, often comes from, is we’re not trusting that the success or result we want is inevitable or will arrive for us.
And that’s, I think, when we start wanting to method hop or shiny penny syndrome our way out of a problem in the business. But if we think about it, that’s so similar to when we’re supporting those high-end clients, how important it is to be communicative, to set those expectations, to really help them understand the process, understand the ups and downs of a design project. Because their desire for quickness, I think, is coming from an insecurity or misunderstanding, not having enough reassurance in that their project is being handled well and they’re going to get what they want at the end of it.
Campbell: And that really does come down to trust. And I think we are grateful to have the majority of our clients trust us, but only through what you just stated, evidence of earning that trust, because we have to kind of prove to them, at least in the beginning, that we’re trustworthy as well.
And so there is a little bit in the beginning of quickly responding to them so they can build up that evidence and compound that evidence, which I think then buys time and trust later when things get a little stickier and drag on, right? Like waiting for the countertop template or waiting for the tiler to come or fixing a mistake that was made. Then they know Campbell’s got it, her team’s on it because we earned it.
Desi: For sure. For sure.
Campbell: I didn’t know I was going to get coaching in this call, Desi.
Desi: I can’t help myself.
Campbell: But honestly, it’s so great to hear because I think that explains a lot to me. It’s like trusting that even for myself, like right now I would say trying to support my team in being able to take on projects on their own and removing me from some of the meetings that have to happen. And I want that immediate success, you know? And like I have to remind myself not to be impatient. It might take months and that’s okay. So, yeah, that’s a good reminder. Thank you.
Desi: Oh, you’re very welcome. I feel like there’s another parallel coming once my brain forms the question.
Campbell: No, it’s okay.
Desi: One of the things I was thinking about too is I was actually reviewing our session notes throughout the years and some themes emerged, right? And I think with coaching, it’s an evolving process. Like there are things that we’ve resolved and they tend to not bubble up again. But then there’s also the themes that tend to evolve and progress and you start just understanding or integrating at higher and higher levels. And we don’t necessarily fully release the challenge that we’re presented with, but it’s just being presented in different ways as the business continues to grow and we set bigger goals for ourselves.
And one of the themes that I had noted for you is just that understanding and really owning the value of your services. And I saw in our notes, one of the questions I had put in the notes that I send after the session is complete is, what are you selling or what are clients buying if you aren’t selling a fast timeline?
Campbell: Wow, that’s crazy.
Desi: And I think that you’ve really progressed through that, right?
Campbell: Yeah.
Desi: But I think it’s so in line with what we’re just discussing of the unintentional value that maybe your brain has a pattern of placing on faster equals better. And it’s even showing up here now in a different flavor.
Campbell: Definitely. And it’s funny because I would say within the business, we have moved through that because I’m so much better about communicating upfront like, okay, I see your contractor’s timeline is that we need to have this picked out by the end of September. But I’m just letting you know, that’s likely not going to happen, but we’re still going to work to do X, Y, and Z.
And I just feel like I’m better at knowing that honestly, our process, if anything, is slow and methodical in a way that makes you feel so taken care of that that’s what we’re selling now, is not having to worry about it because we’ve got it and we’re delivering a high-end customer experience where all the little details are taken care of.
And so the speed thing, I mean, I think they appreciate that we’re moving through the list for them and checking their list off. It’s just that we’re not trying to do it in a rushed, hurried way. We want to create calm, you know? But it’s still, obviously, if I’m bringing this up, it’s still my default.
And I think that probably shows up in my home life. Like we needed to pick an oven and a microwave to get a new one. And I was like, we’ve got to do this right now. And you know my husband’s just like, I need a second. Let me think. Like we’re so different, and I love that.
But I think I try to push it maybe where I haven’t sorted it out, you know, or rushing out the door for soccer practice instead of maybe methodically thinking through it a day in advance and putting things out and making the kids feel like my clients feel. Like I have your water bottle here, you just have to fill it. And here are your shoes, but you just have to put them on, you know?
Desi: Yeah. And here’s what I’m thinking now, follow my train of thought.
Campbell: Okay.
Desi: But what if the speed piece is being flipped now on you, right? You said you want your clients to feel like you’re moving through the process in a slow, methodical way where they feel fully supported. And I almost wonder if with your team, now is the time that it flips, right?
It’s like, you’ve got that nailed for the clients. And so with you removing yourself more and more from some of those meetings with the phase of life that you’re headed into and the phase of business you’re headed into, it’s like this is the period of time where it’s slow and methodical, so you feel fully supported. And that is the way.
Campbell: Yeah. My team, meaning I support.
Desi: With your team. No, the team supporting you.
Campbell: Got it. I see what you’re saying.
Desi: And the process of ironing out these pieces of who’s where, who does what is – The slow, methodical approach is the way, just like you see it in your business. And I wonder if that might help feel a little bit more patience or trust around how that unfolds.
Campbell: Right. I’m going to have to marinate on that. I’m like, how do I help them feel that way?
Desi: Yeah. It was just something that came to mind, so I thought I’d share it.
Campbell: No, I love it. Thank you.
Desi: Yeah.
Campbell: I think tied to that is the navigating thriving business and presence in my personal life. And I had mentioned to you prior to this interview that continues to be a theme, right? And I try to protect that and I’m so much more clear without feeling guilt, right? Like I look at the calendar at the beginning of the year, whenever my kids are off, we are closed, period.
We did it once this summer because it was tricky. And we had a paper hanger go and install something when we were out of office because we thought it would be, oh, no big deal, just paper, like whatever. But obviously learned the hard way, like again, that we have to be present. We have to check on his work. It’s the smallest details, right?
So generally a policy is like, we’re not going to just send a trades person without being available that day to check on their work. And having kids in that balance and juggling that, I mean, I would say I’ve gotten the support inside of my family now to help me be working more at work. And I realize that for me, I don’t need to necessarily be at every pickup from school every day. And in fact, it’s counterintuitive to me because I can’t fully be present with them five days a week at pickup. I’m thinking about what I didn’t do.
So I’m just constantly juggling, every year is new, but now it’s two days a week I pick up and three days a week I’m working and they take the bus and someone’s here for them. And that’s okay. So I love the flexibility of owning a business. But again, I think I’m just always navigating wanting to “have both.” And I think I’m, knock on wood, doing a decent job of that. Hopefully my kids would say the same thing.
Desi: Well, I think what you’re doing is prioritizing what matters to you and what matters to your family. I was just talking to another one of my clients about this and looking at it, I don’t like the phrase work-life balance particularly, I think it’s too rigid. I look at it as work-life blend and the blend changes.
But one of the things I was talking to him about is figuring out what are your non-negotiables in that work-life blend? Because you could totally make it happen if you wanted to pick up your kids five days per week. But you also might have the worst experience of it, both for you and for them, versus saying like, no, it’s important for me to be at the school and establish those connections or see their cute little faces when they come out and they’re so excited. But I also know that it’s not realistic or doable for me to do it five days per week. So I’m going to do it too and totally love when I’m doing it, and also be totally okay not doing it the other days.
Campbell: Yeah. No, that’s a great point. And I feel like I’ve gotten to that point now. You know what I’m struggling with? It’s funny that we’re having this conversation. I woke up thinking to myself like, God, I really need to find a class or do something for me or play pickleball or like, you know, it’s not just about kids and work. It was that way for so long, like balancing those two things.
And then today on my calendar, it was like, you know I have these phrases and it’s like, I’m in control of spicing up my daily routine or trying a new setting and making each day exciting. I was like, oh, the universe is telling me to get online and find a class. That’s what I need to add in, I think, in my 40s, is something that’s just for me that’s not just about building the business. It’s like maintaining social relationships so I’m not just defining myself as mother, designer, business owner.
Desi: Oh yeah, totally. Totally.
Campbell: Which I tend to do. I’m very rigid in those things, unfortunately.
Desi: I think design is an interesting industry or career to have in that one of the things I’ve been thinking about is it does often feel like design chooses you. And so it’s like this encompassing love that you have for the business, for design in that industry. And it can be challenging to think outside of that because it’s not like you’re working against something you don’t like, necessarily, but it’s like exploring what else there is to enjoy.
So it’s like that transition of like, we don’t have to do less of something or make it less part of our world or identity because we don’t like it. It’s just like we’re broadening our perspective on what it is that we might enjoy, who we might want to be or who we want to connect with. And I totally relate to that, so I appreciate you sharing that.
It was interesting you brought up the phrase in control, right? Because this was another theme that I was noticing just as it evolves, right? Of continuing to uplevel the type of goal setting you’re doing, the types of projects you’re bringing in, the income level that the business is generating, and really feeling in control of the future of the business.
And I know that’s something that we definitely worked on. And I think it’s, again, one of those pieces where you get to a point where, yeah, you’ve achieved what you want to achieve. And then you want to do more, right? And then that requires another up-level.
So I’m so curious, just like what you have noticed over the years about that for yourself. And if you could share a little bit.
Campbell: Yeah, so I would say I was lonely in my business at the beginning. So it was always a goal to have a team. And I think that’s probably why the group coaching was so attractive to me, because it was like craving other designers. I still do, right? I have all these groups of people I connect with, but working day in, day out and collaborating with other people and leading a team and creating a culture.
And for so long, I was so afraid to make that first hire. And then I made that hire, and I was afraid then to take it from 1099 to actually like a W2 employee. And I just hit that goal this past summer. And I didn’t go small, I brought on four W2 employees at once. But it was just the fear of making that hurdle. And I also think some of it, which is funny you’re saying control, was like giving up control, which is probably why I have a hard time letting my team go out and run meetings, because I think I am kind of controlling and I see it. And my husband reminds me of that sometimes.
Desi: In a loving way, I’m sure.
Campbell: In a loving way, but like his way of, you know, everyone says doing the dishwasher, but it’s true. Like his way of doing the dishwasher is different from mine. His way of comforting our children is different from mine. His way of organizing our weekends is different from mine. So I do show up and try to control the way things are done.
And I think that’s good to an extent to have a process, but also honoring each teammate’s different style in their approach to the process and trusting that I made the right choice in the beginning to partner that designer with that client based on certain factors, their personality type, the aesthetic.
I think I’m getting off topic, but the control thing I think plays out in giving up control that the outcome we want to be the same, the way we measure room needs to be the same, the way we get there is generally the same, but the nuances within, I can let go of that. I don’t have all the answers.
And sometimes it’s amazing because my team, that’s why I hired them. They have a different perspective to give. They help me to remember things or think of things because I’m juggling some more balls and kind of now what I wanted has come to fruition. And now I’m dealing with a lot more managing people than I am designing every day. So I have to trust that I hired those people to bring my vision to life because of their skill sets too.
Desi: Yeah. Which starts with trusting, like you said, you in the beginning of why you brought these people on.
Campbell: Exactly.
Desi: And it feels similar to the conversation around non-negotiables that we were having in life. It’s like, what are the non-negotiables in the business where it does make sense for you to be at that meeting or if there is a certain way that you want the client communicated with or whatever it is. Taking a look at what are those things where my exacting way actually creates a measurable difference in the outcome or client experience versus this is just me being particular.
Campbell: Right. Yes.
Desi: We have this little song we sing because we’re all very particular in my family where we’re like, Mr. Particular.
Campbell: Is that a song or did you make it up?
Desi: No, we’ve just all made it because we all are very particular. So it’s become a little bit of a joke, but it’s like, when are we just engrossed in our own neuroses where we don’t really need to be? And it’s like, yeah, that’s not the exact way I would do it, but it doesn’t actually matter.
Campbell: I think that is maybe what I need coaching on because even my operations director, she balances me so well because I’m like, well, did you do this and did you do that? And she’s like, calm down. The end result is that the client is happy, and no I didn’t do X and Y, but I did do Y and Z. And I’m like, okay.
So yeah, I guess that is my own neuroses, right? The control. And I don’t know what that’s about. I would love to explore that in a future conversation.
Desi: We don’t have to do that live, but yeah, happy to talk to you about that when we’re not recording.
Campbell: But I would say when we’re running 15 design projects or whatever, all in different phases, so it sounds like a lot, but honestly some are in ordering and we’re just waiting for things to come and others are in full design and the client work, and some are just in the beginning in the conceptual phase. I think that you have to be able to give up some of that.
And so part of me realizes that I purposefully do it so that I won’t have the ability to be so nitpicky. But I do think there’s a balance of maybe dialing it back as seasons change, seasons literally of the year or seasons in your life.
Desi: Yeah, for sure.
I want to just touch on your turning point of being afraid to bring on those full-time employees and then all of a sudden being like, hey, I’m going to hire four people at once. So could you just share a little bit more about how you got over the hump?
Campbell: Yeah, I would say in regards to finally bringing on full-time hires, I think that part of it was watching them grow and building trust with them as 1099 employees. So I needed to see that, right, for them to kind of prove to me that they were worth that. In a way I hate to say that, but you take on so much when you do that. The taxes, kind of just responsibility, if their role grows there’s 401ks and there’s just so much.
And that was part of it, I think. Part of my fear was feeling like it was a very big responsibility. And then saying, okay, can I be a mother of three children, have a business and be responsible for someone else’s well-being in their financial take-home? I mean, it was scary, but I did hire fractional HR support. So I hired someone who was a professional in that field to teach me what I didn’t know because I didn’t want to do it the wrong way.
So I redid my contract with a lawyer for clients, but at the same time, I asked him to create an employee handbook and also create a non-solicitation agreement, all the things that I think I would want to put in place with employees. Then I had the HR professional tweak that and put my voice and branding on it and really dig into the value and culture of the company.
So that took a while. I think I stalled and delayed, and I know I was the one to maybe push off the meeting and push off the, you know, because they’d be like, all right, we’re ready to move forward to the next phase and do this. But I just didn’t want to bring people on without knowing that I exactly could articulate what we wanted as a company and what the expectations of them were.
So that was the delay. And then at once, I just was like, I can’t talk about this anymore, we got to do it. And they were already working on projects. Some of them had been with me for three years. But I also wanted to honor what they wanted. Do you want to be a subcontractor? Do you want to be an employee? There is some level of control around schedule, right?
So if we’re trying to grow as a business, and we have more and more client interests, knock on wood, which we do, which is great, I can’t have people just deciding how much they want to work a week. I need to say, I need you 20 hours, like even if it’s 20 hours, and I need you on these days.
And we’re more focused on project deadlines than we are on the hours, but still giving that parameter. Maybe that’s a better word, not control, but parameter to them of the expectations and being more clear was the point I got to. It just wasn’t functioning well with this ambiguity around their role and timelines.
Desi: Yeah. No, I think that’s so helpful for everyone to hear. And what it makes me think about is just that balance of when it is necessary to hire someone to get support, to take the time to put specific strategic plans in place. And then also paired with like, when do you just need to get out of your own way from a mindset perspective?
Because I think one of the things that when I coach with clients, I’m always looking at it from these multiple perspectives of, is this a strategy issue or like a tactic? Do they need some piece of information delivered? Or is this a mindset block that it’s a limiting belief or just a belief they’ve held that they don’t even recognize they have an option around? And I think it's rarely just one or the other.
And so I think that’s such a great example just of how you in one scenario could kind of summarize like, what are those different pieces and how both of them are really necessary to work through whatever that next goal is in the business.
Campbell: Yeah. And I think the block for me, if I’m being honest, was perfectionism, right? And I had to get over that and just say, what is that phrase? Like, done is good enough. I don’t know. Instead of it being 100%, it had to be like 85, and then I could sort out the rest.
And it was so scary, formal offer letters, formal rates, formal hours, signatures, setting them up with payroll. Some of these women were my friends prior to them coming on, and that was also a hurdle. And I think we’ve done a decent job of separating that, which is personal and professional.
Desi: I would agree with that from what you’ve shared. And I think that’s another good point you bring up of how sometimes these moves we make in our business, no matter how prepared we are, no matter how many times we’ve gotten coaching on it, it’s just going to feel scary.
And it’s so helpful, I think, to come to some of those scarier moves with the perspective of like, this just isn’t going to feel great, and I’m going to keep moving forward inch by inch or leap by leap, whatever that comfort level is. But sometimes it just is going to be scary. And that’s part of what being the CEO of your business is, taking those leaps when you mostly feel ready for it.
Campbell: Yep. So true.
Desi: Yeah. And that really goes to one of the other themes that I was reflecting on around confidence in your leadership abilities and building your team. And I think you’ve shared so much about that along the way. And I think it’s cool to imagine what that’s going to look like even a year from now with the shifts that you’re starting to think about. What does that look like? Who do I need to be in that process? I think it’s a really exciting time.
Campbell: Exciting and scary. Yes. And it’s something I feel like I’m probably pouring more into leadership development for myself and how to be a good leader than anything else at this time because I think I don’t ever want to, I know I don’t want to have an enormous firm. Like I’m comfortable with the designers we have now and the project size we are now until my children are kind of out of the house and off to college. Like I could see that changing.
But for the next 10 or so years, I’m in a good rhythm and I like this. It allows me, back to the balance, to have work-life balance. And I think that’s okay. I need to remember that I’m in charge of my own company and I can change my mind. And that’s probably something I struggle with, is changing my mind and making a different path and saying it’s okay that I don’t want to be bigger, better published, all these things. Because Instagram especially is still that tool, I feel, for our industry. And so you can get sucked up in comparison very easily, you know?
Desi: Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. And I think if anyone can just take one takeaway from that comment that you just made is like, yes, you can change your mind. I think it’s interesting, and I’ve been working through some of this as well over the past maybe six months or so where it’s like we start the business because we want to be the one in charge, to be the one who calls the shots. And we create these rules and then we don’t let ourselves break them.
Campbell: Which goes back to that, like on the podcast you’ve talked about the calendar and living by your little boxes on Google and all these timeframes. And like, that’s what I’m speaking to when I speak about, well, I need to carve out some personal time in there because I look at those color-coded – My team wants to vomit when they see my calendar, but it makes sense for me, right? Color-coded little calendar invites. And it’s like, maybe there should be some personal stuff in that. Who said that they had to stay, you know?
Desi: Yeah, go put them on there now, even if you don’t know what you’re going to do with them.
Campbell: Right. I think that was some coaching that you did that was like, enlightening for me. So I have on every Friday, one to three, Campbell no appointments.
Desi: Yeah.
Campbell: And it’s great. I sent it to the team. It’s like they need to know that’s a hold for me.
Desi: So now you just build on that. Like you already have the skill set, you’ve already implemented it to some degree. And now it’s just going to take on the next layer.
Campbell: Right, right.
Desi: The one last thing I really wanted to make sure that we touched on in this conversation is around relationship building, because that’s something that I remember us coaching on, especially when you were working on the whole less projects, but better projects piece of the business that I think every designer aspires to and progresses through. And I think that relationship building has been such a strong part of your business, and even just you in your community with designers.
When I talk to designers, or I coach them on relationship building as a form of marketing, I think people are like, they get a little like, I don’t know about that. That feels too forward. Or what do I have to offer? Or I think I should go implement this huge Instagram strategy and marketing campaign. And I’m like, but there’s something so simple right here that you could just do and you could start doing it next week.
So I’m curious, like what your philosophy has been around relationship building, and even just the perspective that you take to it that has allowed it to be a natural part of your business’s evolution.
Campbell: Also, I mean, I’m hard on myself sometimes because I’m like, “Oh, I should be doing more,” right? I should be attending local events. And, you know, there’s art shows that you’re going to run into other builders, designers, tradespeople. And I know that saying yes to those events is helpful in that you just are developing a relationship. And I think I might’ve said this on LuAnn’s podcast, but focusing on the relationship, not the outcome and what you’re getting from that relationship, I think is really important.
Like there’s a builder I did a project with, we tried a new way where I ran through their company and I was kind of like their sub and this happened. And it was, you know, beautiful pictures were taken, but the process of working through that project wasn’t great, to be honest, and we both know it. So fast forward six months later, it’s like, hey, let’s grab a cup of coffee and talk about that, right?
And I think what that’s saying is we value each other. We know that we want to commit to excellence and like, let’s just focus on our relationship to allow and make way for other projects to kind of come our way. So that’s one example of that.
The architect relationship that we’ve developed and having architects come and train my team most recently, one of them, I think I referred to you and was your client, Courtney Rombo. And we both joke every now and then, she’s like, “God, I think I need a little tune up with Desi.” So that was a great connection. And sharing that with other people in the community, like genuinely helping them, I think is also good.
Hey, I need a great painter. Who do you have that’s a valuable resource to other designers? And we just share, genuinely share, not just like surface share. We’re giving people, trades people up that we trust who frankly could take away from their job, right? If I book them, they may not be able to use them, but that’s like such a gracious act of kindness and I know she’s giving me someone that she trusts.
I think right now my focus is on relationship building with designers in the industry outside of New Jersey, because I do want to focus a little bit more on press in 2025 and just get my name out there because I want to attract a certain type of client and project. And I think that press, I need to have a clear goal. It’s not to make more money or even be an ego stroke, right? Because I think sometimes you can get caught up in that stuff, but it’s to give credibility to existing clients and attract clients that have certain projects that want a certain style and aesthetic and want to buy products that are a little more quality than maybe I have on past projects.
So by going to these industry events, connecting with design professionals, networking by just showing up and learning, I know that will come from that. Like it just happens organically.
Desi: It does. It does. Yeah. I was just talking to a friend and thinking just how that has been so evident in my career trajectory, even just being a recent grad of design school back in 2006 and like how the thread of relationships has always been so important and not even something I knew I was doing.
But I think what you say is so important, it’s about the relationship. And I think when we focus on the relationship, then it becomes enjoyable.
Campbell: Yeah.
Desi: Right? It doesn’t become this big, scary thing you’re supposed to do on a Friday because you told yourself at 11am I’m going to go network. But you get to enjoy the people that you get to work with and get to know them on a personal level and as people. And I think that some of the most rewarding pieces of owning your own business are those relationships. So I appreciate you sharing that perspective.
Campbell: Yeah. And to drive it home, even on the vendor side, you know, they offer these vendor showroom, or vendor visits where they come to your local community and they give fabrics. And like, you may not need a fabric for a project, right? But you’re going to go in and see something you didn’t know you need, number one.
Number two, the reps. Also, it’s the same thing, I was just talking about it with one of the reps. She said her bosses want her to sell more, right? And I said, what we just had here by talking and knowing each other and me seeing something pretty and ordering memos, like I may call you in three years and order like a hundred yards of a fabric because of the way you treated me and I treated you and the connection that we made.
So again, back to the beginning of our conversation about the seed and like germinating and the trajectory and patience, I think that’s part of that selling process too. It’s just, it’s relationship-based in my mind. And that’s always helpful, especially if you need a rep to bail you out of a sticky situation. Shout out to Scott Harrington from JF Fabrics specifically.
Desi: Oh, I love it. I love it.
Campbell: Yeah.
Desi: Totally. Yep, I hear you on that one. Oh man, all right, we’ve covered a lot of ground. We should bring it on home because I feel like we could just chat all day, but usually my podcasts are not that long.
Campbell: No, that’s okay.
Desi: Yeah, but I mean one of the questions I do want to kind of, not end with, but like ease into our wrapping up here is just, what do you think is really next for you in 2025? I know you mentioned some press, releasing some of the hold that you have on responsibilities in the business. Is there anything else? Like if we were to wave that magic wand, what might appear?
Campbell: I was looking at some of our notes from past conversations and it still is around also like profitability goals. And like, I think I’ve reached a new threshold of what I hope to make from an income perspective. And so setting new targets around that for 2025. Part of that is tied back to like what I want to contribute to my family, right?
So that’s a huge one for me, and I think in order to achieve that it’s streamlining processes, it’s being thoughtful about the types of projects that I take. And I do think, to your point, the team and getting them set up to be leaders on their own projects is huge. I really would like to, I’ve said this for a couple of years, but I would really like to take them to High Point or some other trip like that. I want them to be exposed to better brands. And that’s important to me because I think that will make the quality of what we deliver to clients much more valuable.
Yeah, I think that’s it. I would be around, and the press thing is true. I mean, I would say there’s some holdups on my end as to marketing also in some ways, sharpening my Instagram, like kind of culling and creating this like brand presence and making time for that because I think the quality of work that we’re producing is amazing and I don’t know if our Instagram and the way we package it to clients is in line and in sync.
So that’s a big goal too. Making time for that will be challenging and remains to be seen a little bit. But that’s why I’m going to give more responsibility to the team.
Desi: I was just going to say, this sounds like a great thing for the team to get started with.
Campbell: Yeah.
Desi: Bring you where they take it and then you refine it.
Campbell: Yeah. You’re flipping the script for me and my mind is like, what? But okay, let’s continue that on a coaching call. How about that?
Desi: Yeah, that sounds good. Is there anything that, you know, you’re like, oh, we didn’t get to this or I really want to make sure people hear this?
Campbell: One thing, and I don’t know if this is also something you took from someone else, but like end with the vision in mind and the outcome in mind. And when you’re stuck in the weeds of doing the day to day, like what do you see as the project? How will the family feel in their space?
That has been so helpful for me. And I use that with my kids if they're nervous about a presentation. I use it with my team when they’re stuck with clients that maybe they aren’t jiving with. And I think that just that’s a helpful tool to get people out of a sticky situation when your mindset is in the wrong place of complaining about the day to day or getting stuck in the weeds, you know?
Desi: Yeah. I usually talk about it in terms of business and life vision or consulting your future self. It might be next year. It could be next month. It could be five years from now. But I think always connecting into what that feeling is that you want to create for yourself because that’s a starting point.
And I think often when I start working with clients, it’s hard to see or recognize the thoughts we have that create the feelings. And it just feels like truth just running around in our head all day long. And we believe it. I think often the feeling is something more available, and if we can think about what is that feeling that I want to create? Do I want it to feel spacious, supported, luxurious? You know, it could be for your clients, for you, whatever it is.
Then we can go, okay, so if that’s the feeling that I want to be experiencing, what is it that I need to believe about that future version of myself, the future version of the business? And I think it becomes then so much easier to set goals and understand what our next steps are once we have that in place.
Campbell: Yep, helps you get unstuck for sure.
Desi: Yeah, because we do loop in our heads. And so taking ourselves to a future where it has worked out, we’ve got the evidence that I made it happen, I’m capable, can really shift your perspective quite quickly.
Campbell: Yeah. And I did, I wanted to give a kudos to you, The CEO Summer School. I listened pretty religiously. And it was a great tidbit every time. So thank you for that. And I know you touched on some of that in one of the sessions.
Desi: I’m so glad you followed along. We had a lot of people come to that. That was exciting.
Campbell: It was awesome. And it felt like exactly what coaching is in another way, right? Like, hey, I’m giving you this, like here’s this worksheet. And now you have to do the work, right? Remembering that we, as the clients that you’re coaching, I mean, we are accountable for our own success.
Desi: Yeah. I think it’s interesting you bring that up. One of the things that I’ve been thinking about a lot is how do I even better convey like, what is coaching, right? Because I think some of my clients have worked with coaches before, some haven’t, a variety of backgrounds. And I would love to know just what do you think coaching is? Like, what does that mean to you?
Campbell: I will say it was surprising to me how much work I still had to do four years ago, right? To me, it was more like an accountability partner, number one, and a thought partner. And also someone who supports and brings out the goals you already have within you. It’s not like you’re giving me or prescribing me some sort of medicine to fix my problems. Like I have that intuition, the coach is just helping draw it out.
I mean, I would say the most powerful thing that you offer that I think differentiates you too is around the thought and emotion piece. And like, it’s just so scientific, it’s so helpful to have that. I don’t know if every coach does that. I think it’s become more popular, but you tapped into it kind of earlier.
So yeah, I think it’s someone else, someone who’s supporting you and holding you accountable to tap into your own intuition and create lasting change in life, business, whatever.
Desi: Yeah, and I think the lasting change really comes from learning to access your own internal world, essentially. Because otherwise, we end up just fighting against ourselves. I certainly offer strategy to my clients at times, and we’ll say, hey, this could be something you could do. But also, if it’s something that you just aren’t interested in doing, or there’s some reason where structurally it’s not going to work for you, let’s not spend a bunch of time fighting against it. Let’s figure out what actually would work for you.
And I think that can really create so much more ease in the business as well. Ease among the hard.
Campbell: Yeah, exactly. And when it gets hard, it’s helpful to have someone help you push through all that.
Desi: Yeah, so valuable to have space.
Campbell: Absolutely. But I love getting your Monday emails. I think the consistency of what you deliver is amazing. And I get a lot of rando emails, right, or just like listservs, and I love yours. So please know that. It’s a good, helpful – Even right around now, like 1:45 on a Monday and I’m like, okay, my brain and my energy. And you know, it’s a great little Monday mindset pick me up.
Desi: Yeah, so that’s my plug. If you aren’t already subscribed –
Campbell: Softball.
Desi: Yeah. DesiCreswell.com, scroll all the way down, you’ll find Monday Mindset.
Campbell: It’s great. They’re awesome. Yeah, very valuable. So thank you.
Desi: Yeah. Well, I’ve so appreciated this conversation and having the opportunity to travel back in time, it almost feels like. And also then travel to the future.
Campbell: I’m honored you asked me. I was like, “Oh, that’s so nice.” But also, you’re right, it’s been so nice to reflect and just look at the trajectory and see how far things have come.
Desi: Yeah, I’ve got so far to go. But it’s like we always kind of have so far to go, and you’ve come so far.
Campbell: Right.
Desi: And so I think it’s always helpful to take those moments to show that appreciation and reflect on what has progressed throughout the years, even if the years to come will bring their own challenges and their own different types of growth that will be required of you.
Campbell: Yeah. So thank you for that. It was a nice pause on a crazy Monday. I appreciate it.
Desi: Yeah, so I want to make sure that everyone could look you up. Would you mind sharing where other designers can connect with you, see your work?
Campbell: CampbellMinisterDesign.com is our website. Same thing, the handle is @CampbellMinisterDesign on Instagram. We’re pretty active there sharing a lot of stories and work. I am involved in a lot of the design industry events out here. On my to-do list is to join ASID New Jersey, so that will be an event coming up this month or next month I think that I’ll be going to. I believe LuAnn’s going to be there. But yeah, that’s the best place to contact us, website, Instagram.
Desi: All right, well, everyone go look up Campbell because she’s incredible. And really, that’s what we’ve got for you today. I’ll be back next week with a brand new episode. And until then, I’m wishing you a beautiful week.
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